An agreement should be a freaking AGREEMENT!

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I guess we won't be doing any of your work....
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Lesley wrote:

Lesley, people can demand whatever the hell they want, but if the payment schedule is written into the contract, it doesn't mean jack shit.
Just because they ask for it doesn't mean you should pay it!
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Take trip to your local tavern. I am sure you can find one of the regulars there who will give him a $50 attitude adjustment. During the adjustment, have the adjuster remind him that you expect free shoveling for life, or another adjustment will be given.
Steve
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That made me chuckle! My boss, who is Italian, always tells me that he has goombas, if I ever need someone taken care of. Maybe I should talk to him about this. . .
L
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Lesley, I suggest that you do the following:
*Write the man a letter* (do not do this verbally) saying the following:
1. You and I agreed on ______ (date) that you would clear my driveway of snow throughout this winter for $300. This amount reflects a revision we agree to after you realized that my driveway was longer than average.
2. We agreed that I would pay you $150 downpayment that i would pay the remaining $150 in January.
3. This past week (give the date) you then demanded the remaining $150, several weeks earlier than we agreed. I paid you early.
4. Now you want even more money than the $300.
5. Even though you have failed to clear my driveway of snow several times (though you did clear the snow from my neighbor's driveway on these occasions) I did offer to pay you more but only if you would guarantee to clear my driveway by 8AM. I am under the impression that you refused to accept this quid-pro-quo modification to our original agreement.
6. I would like to restate my offer. I am willing to pay you $___ extra whenever you clear my driveway of snow before 8AM as a "quick response surcharge". But this additional surcharge will be paid to you on each such occasion, not as an advance. No further monies will be paid to you in advance.
7. Please be advised that the next time you fail to clear my driveway of snow, I will consider you in breach of our original agreement and may file a claim in small claims court seeking a partial refund of the monies I paid to you under our agreement, for failure to perform services.
If you agree to this 8AM surcharge, please sign and date below and give this letter back to me, keeping a copy for your records. If you do not agree, our original verbal agreement is still in full force and effect.
_______________ _________________________ You name here his name here
date ( ) date( )
Regards Timo
Lesley wrote:

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On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:43:22 -0500, Timo wrote:

You're even more stupid than the dumb bitch who started this whole thread. Do you really think the dude is going to sign anything?
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He doesn't have to sign. Her letter is a written record of their verbal agreement. If he doesn't respond, either in a writing of his own or by signing her agreement, it amounts, pretty much, to his tacit acceptance of her statement of the terms of that verbal agreement.
It also puts him on notice that she intends to have him live up to the original agreement.
Most important of all, the letter sets up a possible win-win scenario: she will pay him some surcharge for reliable and extra-prompt 8AM service, but not as a lump-sum advance. It's a possible way out, where she doesn't lose her money and he stands to earn some more money from this job.
Optimistic maybe, but not stupid. Timo
Dan C wrote:

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Hell, I'll do it for $250. Of course, you have to pay up front. I will e mail you my snail mail addy where you can send the small denomination bills in a plain envelope.
I'll get back to you as to when I can work you into my busy schedule. Probably after snow melt.
Steve
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Contract, writing, specify breach penalties, small claims court, get a backbone...
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On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 08:00:17 -0800, Lesley wrote:

You're an ignorant bitch who deserves what you got. Smarten up and buy a fucking snowblower or something.
--
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Shut the fuck up and get off mommies computer.
The lady was asking for some help not your juvenile bullshit.
Tell your mom I said hi.....
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If he doesn't come back, which is likely to happen, and you want to get some satisfaction, you can sue him in small claims court. Of course that will take time, but may make you feel good. There are two problems:
! - Proving your case
I assume you don't have anything in writing, which is a lessoned learned. If you live in a state that allows recording of phone conversations with only one party's consent, you could try to get him on the phone and record him discussing the deal. You say look, I paid you x, you agreed to do y, you didn't show up, etc. If he doesn't deny it, you have pretty good proof. You could also carry a pocket recorder, again if your state laws allow this. Sometimes jerks like this will leave a mesg on your answering machine that is good evidence of what they did. Be sure to save it if he does.
2 - Collecting a judgement
Most of these skunks are judgement proof, so unless you know he has a real job or assets, collecting will likely be impossible.
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On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:37:46 +0000, Red Neckerson wrote:


Kiss my ass, punk.

She wasn't asking for help, she was whining.

Tell your wife I'm gonna insist on the anal, next time.
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Don't have a wife, but I'm sure she wouldn't want you after you've been doing your Dad.....
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On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:05:06 +0000, Red Neckerson wrote:


Oh, that's a great comeback.
FOAD, idiot. Don't bother replying.
--
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Hey! Your Dad is the one with come on his back.....
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why so hostile?? getting a little claustraphobic in that trailer home?
bill

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I hope you got a written contract. Otherwise there is little you can do other than beat the crap out of the guy. DO NOT give him more money.
With that said, you really are posting to the wrong newsgroup. Take this to one of the newsgroups with the word "legal" in the name.
---------------

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Actually, just as the 'man' said (the one who called me an ignorant bitch), I'm pretty much just venting here; wasn't looking for legal advice because I know there's no way to deal within the legal system with this kind of guy. I also wanted to hear what people had to say about paying up front. Some of you say I should expect to do it, some of you insist it shouldn't be necessary. The two contractors I've used successfully for a number of jobs only asked for anything up front when one of them had to buy a chain link gate and a storm door that I asked him to install. He asked me to pay for those up front, which I happily did. My other contractor wouldn't even take payment right after he finished the job--he insisted on sending me a bill and having me pay the bill! Still, I understand the concept of paying up front as a good faith gesture. It's just that I don't seem to be getting any such gestures back from these guys who insist on getting paid up front.
Probably for every good contractor out there who insists on money up front, there is one who doesn't. I just have to find those. I don't mind paying for jobs up front when specific materials are involved, but when it's just labor (or substantially labor), what about THEM trusting ME as a gesture of good faith for a change?!?
Best,
Lesley
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You must understand that Dan C is just a boy who is left alone a lot by his strolling mommy ...
wasn't looking for legal

Legally, you are screwed. You can get a judgement in small claims, but it is only good for toilet paper and fire starter.
I also wanted to hear what people had to say

I am mixed up. Is this man a CONTRACTOR? If so, you should have recourse through your own state's agencies. What he is doing is illegal. In our state, this would be a felony.
Some of you say I should expect to do it, some

It's the deal YOU make. If some workman doesn't like your terms, find another.
The two contractors I've used

See. Every deal and workman is different.
He asked me to pay for those up front, which I happily

Now, that man is a real contractor. Invoicing you, having a check from you as proof of payment.

No, it's not good faith. It's some slimeball whispering in your ear, "Trust me."
It's just that I don't seem to be getting any such gestures

Ask the men for their licenses, and for their insurance company to mail you DIRECT a copy of their liability insurance and worker's comp. That will separate the real contractors from the slimeballs.
You still call these men contractors, and some of them are not. A real contractor has licenses. He has insurance. He is bonded to finish the job. A real contractor will whip these out or have their insurance companies mail you certificates. DO NOT accept any insurance certificate they provide, only those mailed DIRECTLY to you. Insurance certs are easily created or copied. All the others are slimeballs who are at the same time are whispering, "Trust me", and sliding their hand down your pants.
Steve, an ex steel erection contractor in the State of Nevada
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