An agreement should be a freaking AGREEMENT!

In late November I hired a guy to shovel my driveway for the 2005-06 winter season. I live southeast of Buffalo, NY so it snows quite a bit. He first quoted me $250, and then he changed it to $300 when he saw that my driveway was longer than average. I agreed to pay $300, and I agreed to give him $150 up front and the balance in January. Last weekend he showed up unannounced asking for the balance. He really caught me off guard, and I had company and didn't want to get into an argument, so I just paid him. Meanwhile, it has snowed a couple of times since I gave him the first installment and he only showed up once to shovel my driveway/sidewalk. But since the snow wasn't too deep, I let it go. I know the snow was deep enough to shovel because he shoveled the driveway/sidewalk across the street (he works for them too). Now today he shows up (and we had some lake effect snow last night) and he wants more money. He says that I have a really long driveway and I should pay him more money. I tell him very nicely that I understand he has a business, but that I agreed to pay $300 and that is all I am willing to pay, and if he feels that it is not adequate, he can refund the rest of the money I already paid him and I'll find someone else. He says, let's talk about this again when I finish your driveway, and then he goes out to shovel. While he's out there I'm inside steaming because this is the second person who has done something like this to me (the first was a drywaller who quoted me one price and then demanded more money after he had done just enough work in the room to make it impossible for me to scrap the whole job). But I decided that I wanted to be reasonable, so I decided that I would agree to pay him more money under two conditions: First, he would do my driveway so that I can leave the house by 8:00am on weekdays (the two times he showed up he didn't even get here until after 9) and second I would pay him the new balance due some time in February. Well he had a fit. He wanted the money now. He said that my driveway is a lot of work and he's very trustworthy and it's not like he won't show up if I pay him now. I said I've already paid you $300 and you've shoveled my driveway twice. Even if I agree that it's worth more than $300 for the whole year (and I don't necessarily agree on that) I do NOT agree that the balance is due NOW. How the heck does he figure I should pay him another couple hundred dollars NOW???

I have definitely learned my lesson this time. I'm not hiring anyone to do anything anymore if I have to pay them a deposit up front. People can really suck sometimes. I don't know if these guys would do this to me if I had a husband or boyfriend living here with me who could deal with these kinds of things, but I tend to think not. I can probably kiss my $300 goodbye. He probably won't show up to shovel anymore, and I guess that's what I deserve for paying him up front. The only reason I even trusted this guy was because I watched him LAST YEAR do the shoveling for the people across the street, and he was very reliable. But I guess reliability isn't everything.

Lesley

Reply to
Lesley
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You have a few options:

1) Write it off as "lesson learned" and in the furture get something in writing with a signature.

2) Tell him you will be reporting him to the city/town officials (some plaves that won't do you any good), or

3) Have a nice sign ready the next time you have a good snowfall "advertising his piss-poor services".....

Reply to
Dr. Hardcrab

Lesley, I suggest that you do the following:

*Write the man a letter* (do not do this verbally) saying the following:

  1. You and I agreed on ______ (date) that you would clear my driveway of snow throughout this winter for 0. This amount reflects a revision we agree to after you realized that my driveway was longer than average.

  2. We agreed that I would pay you 0 downpayment that i would pay the remaining 0 in January.

  1. This past week (give the date) you then demanded the remaining 0, several weeks earlier than we agreed. I paid you early.

  2. Now you want even more money than the 0.

  1. Even though you have failed to clear my driveway of snow several times (though you did clear the snow from my neighbor's driveway on these occasions) I did offer to pay you more but only if you would guarantee to clear my driveway by 8AM. I am under the impression that you refused to accept this quid-pro-quo modification to our original agreement.

  2. I would like to restate my offer. I am willing to pay you $___ extra whenever you clear my driveway of snow before 8AM as a "quick response surcharge". But this additional surcharge will be paid to you on each such occasion, not as an advance. No further monies will be paid to you in advance.

  1. Please be advised that the next time you fail to clear my driveway of snow, I will consider you in breach of our original agreement and may file a claim in small claims court seeking a partial refund of the monies I paid to you under our agreement, for failure to perform services.

If you agree to this 8AM surcharge, please sign and date below and give this letter back to me, keeping a copy for your records. If you do not agree, our original verbal agreement is still in full force and effect.

_______________ _________________________ You name here his name here

date ( ) date( )

Regards Timo

Lesley wrote:

Reply to
Timo

Hell, I'll do it for $250. Of course, you have to pay up front. I will e mail you my snail mail addy where you can send the small denomination bills in a plain envelope.

I'll get back to you as to when I can work you into my busy schedule. Probably after snow melt.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

Contract, writing, specify breach penalties, small claims court, get a backbone...

Reply to
Herb Harris

You're even more stupid than the dumb bitch who started this whole thread. Do you really think the dude is going to sign anything?

Reply to
Dan C

You're an ignorant bitch who deserves what you got. Smarten up and buy a f****ng snowblower or something.

Reply to
Dan C

I am definitely writing it off as a lesson learned. I'm not sure getting something in writing would have mattered. The drywaller who pulled the same thing on me last year signed a contract, but that didn't stop him from demanding more money half-way through the job, after I'd already paid him more than half in advance per our written contract.

I'm just not going to pay anything up front anymore!

Lesley

Reply to
Lesley

Take trip to your local tavern. I am sure you can find one of the regulars there who will give him a $50 attitude adjustment. During the adjustment, have the adjuster remind him that you expect free shoveling for life, or another adjustment will be given.

Steve

Reply to
SteveB

Shut the f*ck up and get off mommies computer.

The lady was asking for some help not your juvenile bullshit.

Tell your mom I said hi.....

Reply to
Red Neckerson

Most contractors require a downpayment before starting a project. Always go with a reliable one (ask your friends and neighbors). Any contractor that DOESN'T have some kind of written contract (signed by you and them) should probably be avoided.

Another thing: Always use a check or a credit card so you have a record of the transaction.

Maybe try to approach with a non-confrontational attitude and ask him how he can resolve this problem?? Worth a try....

Reply to
Dr. Hardcrab

If he doesn't come back, which is likely to happen, and you want to get some satisfaction, you can sue him in small claims court. Of course that will take time, but may make you feel good. There are two problems:

! - Proving your case

I assume you don't have anything in writing, which is a lessoned learned. If you live in a state that allows recording of phone conversations with only one party's consent, you could try to get him on the phone and record him discussing the deal. You say look, I paid you x, you agreed to do y, you didn't show up, etc. If he doesn't deny it, you have pretty good proof. You could also carry a pocket recorder, again if your state laws allow this. Sometimes jerks like this will leave a mesg on your answering machine that is good evidence of what they did. Be sure to save it if he does.

2 - Collecting a judgement

Most of these skunks are judgement proof, so unless you know he has a real job or assets, collecting will likely be impossible.

Reply to
trader4

Kiss my ass, punk.

She wasn't asking for help, she was whining.

Tell your wife I'm gonna insist on the anal, next time.

Reply to
Dan C

That made me chuckle! My boss, who is Italian, always tells me that he has goombas, if I ever need someone taken care of. Maybe I should talk to him about this. . .

L
Reply to
Lesley

Actually, I decided to use this guy because he was doing such a great job for the people across the street. I guess I should have SPOKEN to them first instead of just seeing what a good job he was doing and then ASSuME-ing that it was safe to hire him.

It may be that most contrators require a downpayment, but I just don't feel comfortable taking the chance anymore. Maybe it's not too bright to walk away from this with THAT being the lesson learned, but I'm certain that if I stick with this rule--never paying anyone up front--I won't be so easily screwed. Since I bought this house I've used five contractors. The ones that gave me trouble are the two whom I had to pay up front. Two of the others were great and wouldn't take any money up front. They both did excellent work and I use them still (for heating, plumbing, electrical work, carpentry and drywalling). The fifth one quoted me an exhorbitant price the first time out so I went with one of the other guys who did great work for half the cost.

By the way, I did try to approach the situation non-confrontationally. The whole time we were having our conversation about "mo money mo money mo money" I was being very nice, reasonable, soft-spoken even. However, he was the one who was getting really pissed off because I wouldn't agree to pay him NOW. He ended up turning on his heels and just walking away from me in the middle of the discussion. I wasn't going to stand there in my driveway in the freezing cold, so I just went in the house.

L
Reply to
Lesley

He doesn't have to sign. Her letter is a written record of their verbal agreement. If he doesn't respond, either in a writing of his own or by signing her agreement, it amounts, pretty much, to his tacit acceptance of her statement of the terms of that verbal agreement.

It also puts him on notice that she intends to have him live up to the original agreement.

Most important of all, the letter sets up a possible win-win scenario: she will pay him some surcharge for reliable and extra-prompt 8AM service, but not as a lump-sum advance. It's a possible way out, where she doesn't lose her money and he stands to earn some more money from this job.

Optimistic maybe, but not stupid. Timo

Dan C wrote:

Reply to
Timo

I have another idea:

Move to where there is no snow....

;-]

(In a couple of years......)

Reply to
Dr. Hardcrab

Don't have a wife, but I'm sure she wouldn't want you after you've been doing your Dad.....

Reply to
Red Neckerson

You paid HALF up front? Way too much.

There's nothing wrong with putting down a deposit, especially if the person you're hiring is in demand - a deposit shows them that you really want their business. You may have a hard time hiring _anybody_ if you won't pay anything as a deposit.

As a general rule, 15% of the total contract amount should be more than enough as a deposit. The rest of the money should be paid out as the work is completed.

In the case of your snow shoveling guy, you could have paid him around $50 as a deposit, and then another $30-40 after each snowfall. Because you gave him so much money up front, you've basically shown him that you're willing to be taken to the cleaners, so he'll just ask for more money. After you've given him the money, you're pretty much hooped. If you only give him a small deposit, and he comes back saying that the agreed upon amount is too low, it's pretty easy to tell him to hit the road (since you're only out $50, instead of $300).

Reply to
Christian Fox

"Christian Fox" wrote

Try finding a contractor that only wants 15% when something more than labor is involved......

Reply to
Dr. Hardcrab

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