All the hoopla over incandecent bulbs...

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wrote:

You still don't read much.
One of many articles on the issue:
"The Cheney case centered on whether the GAO could demand to know who met with the interagency task force, chaired by Cheney, that wrote Bush's energy policy. Democrats had argued that Big Business was having too much influence in the process. When Cheney refused to cooperate, the GAO went to court for the first time in its 81-year history." http://www.post-gazette.com/nation/20030208cheneynat7p7.asp
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And you still don't understand *any* of what little you do read.

Q: What does that have to do with mercury emissions from power plants? A: Absolutely nothing, as is typical for Doug "Moving Target" Kanter.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

In this message, read all the text beginning at the top. You won't see the connection, but it is definitely there.
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I'm sure you see a lot of things that aren't there...
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

Well, so far, you're the only one here who has not been able to follow the conversation. Step away from the MD 20/20.
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Kanter, somehow *you* turned a conversation about power plant mercury emissions into a political rant about Dick Cheney. You really should wait to post until after you've sobered up. When you post in this condition, you make even less sense than you usually do.
How come you stopped using your real name on your posts, Kanter? Ashamed?
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

Here's your "somehow", professor:
Heybub said this: "In other words, if we've already made the decision that the Mercury released into the environment from coal-powered plants is acceptable to power our incandescent bulbs, the amount of Mercury in CFLs is more than offset by the reduced power generation."
I pointed out that the word "we", in his paragraph, was null and void, since "we" decided nothing. Acceptable emissions levels were decided behind closed doors by Cheney and a group of attendees whose identity he refused to reveal. That's where YOU jumped in and made a tinfoil hat comment, which suggests that Cheney did NOT consider the list of attendees to be a secret.
I taught you that indeed, the list WAS a secret and that the GAO had to hit him over the head for information.
If a government official meets with some shady character to find out where American hostages are being held, THAT is a good reason for secrets. But, it is NOT appropriate to hide the identities of corporate slobs who are manipulating regulations intended to protect the health of this country.
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No, Kanter, it suggested that you're a loon for thinking that Cheney decided emissions levels behind closed doors.

And now "Moving Target" Kanter has switched the subject *again*. Amazing -- from power plant mercury emissions to "American hostages being held" in just three posts.
You need to put another layer of foil in your beanie.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

Now you're trying to dance and doing a lousy job of it.
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That's really pretty funny, coming from you, Kanter -- the guy who constantly changes the subject every time he's confronted. Forget to take your Ritalin this morning?
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

You're done here, I guess. You are unable to address the subject at hand, even after it's been rehashed and clearly laid out for you.
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You've apparently forgotten that the "subject at hand" was mercury, which you're clearly unable to address without going off on tangents about Dick Cheney, secret meetings, American hostages, and whatever else may occur to you in the next five seconds.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

So what? Cheney and his group evidently made no decision about Mercury. The decision on Mercury vis-a-vis the environment was made in 1995 (amendment to the 1990 Clean Air Act).
"On March 15, 2005, EPA issued the Clean Air Mercury Rule to permanently cap and reduce mercury emissions from coal-fired power plants for the first time ever. This rule, combined with EPA's Clean Air Interstate Rule (CAIR), will significantly reduce emissions from the nation's largest remaining source of human-caused mercury emissions."
http://www.epa.gov/mercury/control_emissions/index.htm
Evidently, it was the Clinton administration (1995) that set previously high Mercury standards and the Bush administration (2005) that lowered them.
Sorry.
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It's all Mr. Edison's fault !
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wrote:

I think you need to have the nursing home staff bring you the newspapers more often.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/special/2002/jul/02/513661022.html
July 02, 2002
Cheney energy papers may have Yucca policy answers LAS VEGAS SUN WASHINGTON -- Energy policy documents that Vice President Cheney has kept under wraps may indicate why the Bush administration switched its position on Yucca Mountain, Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Monday as he joined a legal effort to unlock the documents.
Nevada lawmakers have voiced concern that a White House task force led by Cheney met privately last year with nuclear industry officials -- but sought little input from Yucca critics -- as they developed a national energy policy. Those meetings may have led Bush to abandon a promise to allow "sound science" guide his decision about the planned high-level nuclear waste dump at Yucca Mountain, Reid said.
Bush broke his promise when he approved Yucca in February, before important scientific studies were complete, Nevada lawmakers say.
"The administration needs to stop hiding the truth," Reid said. "They should tell the public which executives the Vice President met with and when he met with them."
Reid on Monday filed an amicus "friend of the court" brief in federal court in support of the General Accounting Office's lawsuit to make certain energy documents public. Many lawmakers want to know who White House officials met with as they drafted the administration's sweeping energy policy released in May 2001. The policy endorsed a national nuclear waste dump amid other far-reaching proposals.
White House officials have declined to release the documents because they say they have a right to solicit information in the protected confines of a private meeting. Bush wants the ability to get candid views outside the government, aides say.
The GAO is the investigative arm of Congress. The White House's position of hiding information about U.S. policy threatens the ability of Congress to do its job, Reid said.
"This administration is systematically pursing a policy of hiding this information from the people -- something which should not be tolerated in a democracy," Reid said.
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wrote:

News, carefully hidden from fools like you, Miller. All based on facts. Next time there's a moth in your house, ask it to read the newspaper aloud for you.
The New York Times
December 23, 2005
Editorial
Mr. Cheney's Imperial Presidency
George W. Bush has quipped several times during his political career that it would be so much easier to govern in a dictatorship. Apparently he never told his vice president that this was a joke.
Virtually from the time he chose himself to be Mr. Bush's running mate in 2000, Dick Cheney has spearheaded an extraordinary expansion of the powers of the presidency - from writing energy policy behind closed doors with oil executives to abrogating longstanding treaties and using the 9/11 attacks as a pretext to invade Iraq, scrap the Geneva Conventions and spy on American citizens.
It was a chance Mr. Cheney seems to have been dreaming about for decades. Most Americans looked at wrenching events like the Vietnam War, the Watergate scandal and the Iran-contra debacle and worried that the presidency had become too powerful, secretive and dismissive. Mr. Cheney looked at the same events and fretted that the presidency was not powerful enough, and too vulnerable to inspection and calls for accountability.
The president "needs to have his constitutional powers unimpaired, if you will, in terms of the conduct of national security policy," Mr. Cheney said this week as he tried to stifle the outcry over a domestic spying program that Mr. Bush authorized after the 9/11 attacks.
Before 9/11, Mr. Cheney was trying to undermine the institutional and legal structure of multilateral foreign policy: he championed the abrogation of the Antiballistic Missile Treaty with Moscow in order to build an antimissile shield that doesn't work but makes military contractors rich. Early in his tenure, Mr. Cheney, who quit as chief executive of Halliburton to run with Mr. Bush in 2000, gathered his energy industry cronies at secret meetings in Washington to rewrite energy policy to their specifications. Mr. Cheney offered the usual excuses about the need to get candid advice on important matters, and the courts, sadly, bought it. But the task force was not an exercise in diverse views. Mr. Cheney gathered people who agreed with him, and allowed them to write national policy for an industry in which he had recently amassed a fortune.
The effort to expand presidential power accelerated after 9/11, taking advantage of a national consensus that the president should have additional powers to use judiciously against terrorists.
Mr. Cheney started agitating for an attack on Iraq immediately, pushing the intelligence community to come up with evidence about a link between Iraq and Al Qaeda that never existed. His team was central to writing the legal briefs justifying the abuse and torture of prisoners, the idea that the president can designate people to be "unlawful enemy combatants" and detain them indefinitely, and a secret program allowing the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on American citizens without warrants. And when Senator John McCain introduced a measure to reinstate the rule of law at American military prisons, Mr. Cheney not only led the effort to stop the amendment, but also tried to revise it to actually legalize torture at C.I.A. prisons.
There are finally signs that the democratic system is trying to rein in the imperial presidency. Republicans in the Senate and House forced Mr. Bush to back the McCain amendment, and Mr. Cheney's plan to legalize torture by intelligence agents was rebuffed. Congress also agreed to extend the Patriot Act for five weeks rather than doing the administration's bidding and rushing to make it permanent.
On Wednesday, a federal appeals court refused to allow the administration to transfer Jose Padilla, an American citizen who has been held by the military for more than three years on suspicion of plotting terrorist attacks, from military to civilian custody. After winning the same court's approval in September to hold Mr. Padilla as an unlawful combatant, the administration abruptly reversed course in November and charged him with civil crimes unrelated to his arrest. That decision was an obvious attempt to avoid having the Supreme Court review the legality of the detention powers that Mr. Bush gave himself, and the appeals judges refused to go along.
Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney have insisted that the secret eavesdropping program is legal, but The Washington Post reported yesterday that the court created to supervise this sort of activity is not so sure. It said that the presiding judge was arranging a classified briefing for her fellow judges and that several judges on the court wanted to know why the administration believed eavesdropping on American citizens without warrants was legal when the law specifically required such warrants.
Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney are tenacious. They still control both houses of Congress and are determined to pack the judiciary with like-minded ideologues. Still, the recent developments are encouraging, especially since the court ruling on Mr. Padilla was written by a staunch conservative considered by President Bush for the Supreme Court.
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wrote:

Poor Miller. Reads nothing, spews a lot.
http://www.haleakalatimes.com/news/story2525.aspx Cheney hates sunshine (and puppies) A preference for secrecy has long been a Cheney character trait, and he showed it immediately after taking office. He formed the National Energy Policy Development Group and used it to create a national energy policy, but refused to name the members of the task force and claimed an executive privilege to keep the nature of the discussions secret. In Nov. 2001, Bush made Cheney the first vice-president in American history to hold the same executive privilege to classify information as the president.
The policy that came out of the NEPDG focused on the need to establish new sources of oil, to make energy security a priority of U.S. trade and foreign policy, and to promote outside investment in oil and gas industries of Middle East and Persian Gulf countries. The task force worked quickly by Washington standards, meeting for less than 100 days to prepare a comprehensive national policy regarding a complex and critical aspect of modern life. The Sierra Club, Judicial Watch and the Government Accounting Office filed separate lawsuits against Cheney, seeking the release of all documents related to the energy task force. Cheney had refused the GAOs direct agency-to-agency request, saying that it would compromise the confidentiality of communications among a President, a Vice-President, the Presidents other senior advisors and others.
In July 2003, the Supreme Court denied Cheneys bid for secrecy and ordered the NEPDG to release its documents to the public, which showed that members of the task force included Ken Lay, CEO of an already-troubled Enron, along with six other Enron executives; ExxonMobil CEO Lee Raymond and others from ExxonMobil, and representatives from the American Petroleum Institute.
Other documents described which countries and transnational companies had agreements with Saddam Hussein to develop Iraqs oil. There were maps and charts detailing Iraqi oilfields, pipelines, refineries, terminals and gas projects. There were also maps of all oil and gas development in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. The documents are dated March 2001, two years before the invasion of Iraq.
Cheneys personal insistence on secrecy didnt interfere with his role in leaking the identity of Valerie Plame, a covert CIA officer who had the misfortune of being married to a man who became a target for what Gore Vidal refers to as the Cheney/Bush junta. The perjury trial of Cheneys former Chief of Staff, Lewis Libby, has revealed that Cheney was deeply involved in the attempt to discredit Plames husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, after he blew the whistle on Bushs claim that Saddam Hussein was seeking uranium from Niger to build a nuclear weapon.
According to Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, Cheney enlisted Libby to act as his surrogate and personally respond to reporters queries about the veracity of Wilsons allegations by authorizing his chief of staff to leak classified information to journalists.
The classified information that was leaked may have included Plames covert status, Fitzgerald said, In retaliation for her husbands stinging rebukes of the administrations Iraq policies.
There is a cloud over the vice president. ... a cloud over the White House over what happened, Fitzgerald told the jury. That cloud is something you just cant pretend isnt there.
It was Cheneys office that wrote up the 2002 torture memos claiming the Geneva Conventions dont apply to enemy combatants. It was Cheney himself who described Sen. John McCains legislation banning inhumane treatment of detainees as a law that would cost thousands of American lives. Based on that record, Admiral Stansfield Turner, a former director of the CIA, referred to Cheney as the Vice President for torture.
Cheneys manner and authority of voice far outstrip his true abilities, according to Chas Freeman, who was an ambassador to Saudi Arabia in the first Bush administration. It was clear from the start that George W. Bush required adult supervision but it turns out Cheney has even worse instincts. He does not understand that when you act recklessly, your mistakes will come back and bite you on the ass.
The Casper Star Tribune isnt too pleased with Cheney these days either, saying in a December 2006 editorial: During Cheneys tenure as VP, Wyoming has seen a virtual takeover of our public lands by the oil and gas industry. As the chief architect of the Bush energy policy, Cheney deserves much of the credit (or blame) for the unplanned, uncontrolled sprawl of oil and gas development across Wyomings open spaces. So far, it seems that the vice president has brought little more than destruction and embarrassment to Wyoming during his term in office.
Cheneys not even a true conservative, according to David Payne, a national security expert and occasional Fox News commentator a man so conservative that he considers George W. Bush to be a centrist President. For a long time, I was willing to look past Cheneys growing list of false assertions and support for dubious and decidedly un-conservative policies, Payne wrote in July 2004. For over three years, I observed his misguided embrace of neo-conservatism and his record as chief propagandist for the administrations unprovoked war against Iraq.
Paynes ultimate conclusion was that in order for the Republican party to get back to a Reaganite policy of conservative realism that puts Americas national interests first, the Vice President that he once supported simply has to go.
Rob Lafferty
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

It was the royal "We." I might have been in that meeting, but since the attendance list is secret, I don't know.
Still, the emission levels for coal-fired smokestacks haven't changed under the Bush administration, Cheney's meeting notwithstanding (at least to my knowledge). So, evidently, the "decision" didn't get out.
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote: ..

Current CFL's have very little mercury and save enough energy that if supplied by a coal fired plant, the mercury reduced at the plant is greater than that in the lamp.
--
Joseph Meehan

Dia \'s Muire duit
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Everybody's a comedian tonight.
Question for you: What is the sum of 2+2+2+2+2?
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