Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)

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On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:49:01 -0500, krw wrote:

For two reasons, that is exactly what I would do were I to build a system of my own, from assembled parts.
1. You can't get the Bosch parts anyway, so, nobody can build their own system out of Bosch parts, and,
2. Even if I could get Bosch parts, I wouldn't build a system out of restricted parts, simply because it would be difficult to expand and repair in the future.
However, when I asked today at a few intrusion alarm places, they told me that the "reason" Bosch is restrictive is to prevent intelligent burglaries.
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 03:51:51 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico

I hope you don't intend on having it connected to the police department. They will *really* frown on that.

Understandable. It's not reasonable to build cars out of Ford parts, either.

Huh?

Perhaps. It's their business. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 14:00:51 -0500, krw wrote:

Understood.
One security professional emailed me the following about the lack of DIY for this system: "The system you have is a upper level system so if you can utilize it then that is good. Radionics/Bosch never was intended as a DIY system. They were always geared for the upper end market and are used in High Security systems. Most banks, government divisions (including the FBI, Secret Service, Post office and the military use their equipment. They used to be even tighter with releasing their documentation prior to being acquired by Bosch. Regarding the CALL FOR SERVICE, that is normally a message that appears when the keypad does not receive any data from the control board for about two minutes. You can confirm that by powering up one of your keypads with 12VDC only with no connection to the panel."
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On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:18:47 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

And, the funny thing is, after digging a bit, I find out that the (suggested) price list was right here, all along, on the net! http://www.industry.usa.siemens.com/topics/us/en/btus/CommonwealthMA/Documents/bosch-intrusion-ifas-msrp-price-list-3-1-13.xlsx
Sheeesh! :)
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On 11/25/2013 06:53 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:

You shoulda got here a coupla years ago, Robert Bass would sell anything to anybody.
technomaNge
--
If I remember correctly.

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On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:15:55 -0600, technomaNge wrote:

This guy seems like one who can and will sell any Bosch Radionics board to anyone: http://obsoleteradionics.com
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Danny D'Amico Wrote:

It is a pain in the ass to become a Bosch (Radionics) dealer. The alarm companies that "pass" their standards; and are in a area that doesn't have too much competition from other Bosch dealers get the seal of approval to be a certified dealer.
You won't find a "certified dealer" selling parts outright, as you seem to know. However, there are ways to get parts. Most alarm companies that are not dealers buy through a competitor for parts. Since you can't go that route, there are online sites that sell parts.
I did a quick Google search and found one such outlet in 30 seconds. I'll just post the 1st hit, I have no idea who they are nor have I done business with them- --- it's just an example. I'm sure you can find more if I found one that fast!
Example: http://obsoleteradionics.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productIdw2
--

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:46:54 -0800, Oren wrote:

You're not kidding!
I called Bosch/Radionics at 800-538-5807 who told me they have plenty of D2212B(LT) boards in stock (the LT, they told me, simply means it comes without the external transformer in the kit).
But they can't sell them to me. They told me to go to Anixer or ADI.
So, I call Anixer at 925-469-8500, who says they can't sell the board to me, due to their legal agreements. I have to get it from a contractor as a "pass-through" (whatever that means).
So, this seems to be the path of the board: Bosch/Radionics sells it to Anixer who sells it to the pass-through contractor who sells it to me.
I wonder what the markup is each time?
Anyway, now I am looking for a "pass though" contractor, whatever that means. I mean, I realize it's an "installer"; but, I don't want an installer. I want a pass-through guy to just send me the board.
What do I google for? (The Anixer guys couldn't tell me.)
Now for the ADI guys ... 800.233.6261 ... ... they won't sell it to me either. I need a contractor's license. Sheesh.
It's getting to be harder to get a stinkin' alarm system replacement board than it was to get garage door torsion springs! :)
Does anyone know how I can find a "pass through" contractor?
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Danny D'Amico wrote:

Hi, Run an ad on Kijiji saying you are looking for an alarm tech who could help your situation. If some one respond, deal is no fix, no pay. Lot of legit guys do a side job when he is off regular work. I am lucky if I had a situation like that, just phone my old buddies still on the job. They will send some one to help me out or give me some thing I need. I retired from Honeywell. They have building protection division.
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Where are you located?
Maybe someone on this list with electronic skills can take a look at it and maybe repair the board(s).
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:04:55 -0500, tm wrote:

Silicon Valley, of all places. :)
I find it hard to believe THREE things would go bad at once.
I can run rudimentary tests on the D2212B board, but, what I need to do is read all the PDFs I found to see if any offer advice as to whether there is a RESET.
There's a reset button on the wall controllers, but, they don't power up with the battery in place so, *something* is wrong.
If it's a simple board reset, that's what I'll look for first.
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Tell them you're from the IRS. They'll give it to you. ;-)

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On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 00:01:04 -0600, Nightcrawler® wrote:

That's my experience also. For example, a fully-charged d-cell will be something around 1.65VDC, and, if it's low, it will be something around 1.4VDC (give or take) but not over its nominal charge of 1.5VDC.
Then again, the loading test is more accurate; but you have to know the load and you have to start with a fully-charged battery, so it's harder to accomplish.
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On Saturday, November 23, 2013 9:42:46 AM UTC-5, Danny D'Amico wrote:

,


In your case, it's very easy to establish if the battery is the problem or not. Measure the voltage with it connected to the alarm.
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On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 07:02:58 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

The strangest thing happened when I took you up on your suggestion!
A. The battery, connected to the power supply, was 12.87 volts:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3785/11012332223_24ba3777a7_o.gif
B. I also read 12.87 volts at the very edge of the power supply, so, the wires are good:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/11012105955_96364f93f1_o.gif
C. I then got 12.87 volts between the battery and the GND spade on the power supply board:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7360/11012206866_fdcb4a46a6_o.gif
D. But, the strangest thing is there is no voltage between the battery and the PWR spade of the power supply:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5516/11012206746_15cf8b97f4_o.gif
I'm not sure what to make of those conflicting results.
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Danny D'Amico wrote:

Have you ever worked on car charging system and battery? If battery shows mere 12V it is a toast. Charging voltage is around 14V as you know. And in this case hi Z Fluke is not a good choice, use something like Simpson 260. If I were you I'd replace x-former and battery and start from there. If you want, put a in-line fuse and protect them in case. You can talk and and talk and scratch your head all day and it is not gonna get fixed.
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wrote:

A Simpson 260 isn't good, by itself, either. At 20K/V, it's not going to provide a significant load. A resistor (pick your poison, depending on battery) and any hi-z meter will work better. There is nothing magic about Simpson 260s.
I'd measure before replacing anything, though the battery is likely toast no matter what else is bad. Don't replace it until you're sure that's the only thing that's gone.
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On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 08:20:19 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Yes. 13.8 volts is "normal" for an open-circuit voltage. The voltage is highest after charging, and then goes down, over time, depending on the type of battery.

I have no qualms about replacing stuff, but, I am trying to debug first, *what* needs to be replaced (other than the transformer, which is on order).
Right now, I'm trying to figure out why the power supply board has 0 volts across the PWR and GND pins, even with 13 volts at the inputs.
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The transformer is obviously dead. Replace it immediately. This will at least let you know if the system will work with the transformer functional. Step two would be to figure out what is wrong with the battery back-up. Have you checked for fuses, yet?
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On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 11:41:40 -0600, Nightcrawler® wrote:

I don't see a fuse on the Radionics D2212 BLT circuit board:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2866/11014946826_4ecdea2144_o.gif
And, I don't (yet) see a fuse in the Radionics D2212B LT diagram:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2861/11014840755_8169e24a57_o.gif
And, I don't see an inline fuse in the "rats nest" below the board:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7409/11014945176_770ebeea29_o.gif
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