She was a SB when she was a kid, living in Texas, then again after >forty
years, after moving back South. No, the Methodist church she was a member of
did a hard left turn, after most of the congregation made it perfectly clear
they wanted to go "straight".
Yes, the congregation had *no* choice. She, and many in the congregation
showed them that, yes, they did have a choice.
Theology without practice isn't worth much. She didn't join a Unitarian
Universalists church (which, we got married in, BTW) but she might just as
well have, after the shift.
Nope. She *was* at one of the more conservative of the churches but it was
under new management. Since there is no input from the congregation, she and
a *bunch* of others left.
On 5/31/2011 11:09 PM, email@example.com wrote:
Well, I'll make one last comment.
Under the UM Book of Discipline there is a church council every member
of the church is automatically a member of this council. Decisions on
changing a local church mission direction such as this are made by a
vote in such a council. So, there is a mechanism to have a say/make a
Now, often only a very small minority of the congregation members will
bother to show up and make their opinions known and cast their vote, but
that's no the same thing as having no choice.
Whether that happened in this instance or not I have no way of knowing,
of course, but there is a process that gives local congregations quite a
lot of leeway; it isn't absolutely forced from the outside w/ no
recourse. OTOH, while I fail to understand why, it seems that many are
often more pleased to not participate but then complain when the
decision didn't go to their liking.
Pastor/Parish Committee can even recommend a replacement for a pastor
that is not in communion w/ the majority of the congregation or even
reject a new pastor appointment (albeit this is rare, it has and does
happen on occasion).
They gave them *no* choice. Something like half the congregation left and
they were having problems paying their bills afterward. Tough.
Vote? There was no vote.
They had to pick from three or four pastors. One they interviewed one (and
had them as a guest pastor) they had to decide up or down on that pastor. They
could not come back to him/her later. The third was automatic. They didn't
choose which ones to interviews, either. *Very* poorly done.
On 6/1/2011 6:41 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Who was "they" and "them" here? Sounds like again, that the leadership
council made a decision and as so often is the case, a large portion
If it was a bloc schism, that's unfortunate but things like that do,
unfortunately, happen. It isn't however, a fault of the UM Church as an
organization but of an individual congregation is the point.
Where was the Church Council and the congregation annual Charge
Conference during all this? Again, methinks "there's more to the
Ά 252. 1. PurposeThe church council shall provide for planning and
implementing a program of nurture, outreach, witness, and resources in
the local church. It shall also provide for the administration of its
organization and temporal life. It shall envision, plan, implement, and
annually evaluate the mission and ministry of the church. The church
council shall be amenable to and function as the administrative agency
of the charge conference (Ά 244).
I would certainly have expected any major shift in programs or missions
of the congregation to have been brought to the annual charge conference
As I feared, this has gotten too far afield and too involved into the
particulars of one particular congregation to be possible to sort out
anything at all.
I will contend, however, that it isn't an indictment of the UM
organization as a whole but within a single congregation.
If there, I'm sure I'd been on the phone w/ the District Superintendent
and the Bishop on more than one occasion... :)
That also doesn't really sound right...part of the UM way is that
Conference (the Bishop, primarily altho w/ advice) assigns pastors for
everybody w/ a modicum of acceptance/rejection by the congregation. I
would not expect for the senior pastor to be more than a single or
perhaps a choice of a couple under a suggestion from the bishop.
Unlike some others who hire independently. That's just part of "the
Methodist way"--has been; will always be. If it's not a fit; rarely
will such an appointment last more than a couple of years, however in my
observation of some 60 years or so. Sometimes there's lessons to be
learned from some of these that aren't "comfortable" initially, too,
Anyway, sounds like it's all water under the bridge at this point so
I'll really sign off now...
I hope you tell the truth and tell them it's really a kludged together
bastardization of Christianity.
"Under the doctrine of continuing revelation, Latter-day Saints believe
that Jesus leads the church by revealing his will to its President, whom
adherents regard as a modern-day "prophet, seer, and revelator." The
current President is Thomas S. Monson. "
To subscribe to that faith one would have to believe the "boss" of the
church has a direct hotline to God. No one else, only the
"President"...(are you sure you're just not running a corporation?) gets
to tell his minions what God wants them to do. Nice little cult you
have there, I rank it right up there with Scientology. Both need to
have their tax-exempt status revoked. It's all about the $$$$, right?
That's why you force your children out in pairs to 'convert' people by
knocking on my door all the time. Selling religion, what a concept.
I politely tell your missionaries I'm Jewish and close the door. They
have not come up with a good come-back to that one (yet), it's probably
being worked on in the sales dept. as we type.
~G (not Jewish or member of any organized 'religion, but I've studied
most... including your sub-sect.)
Why? The Catholic's don't make up their own "Holy Books" and pass them
off as "Gospel". Of course, the Vatican has *removed* original Books
from the Bible were incompatible with their control of the flock.
The Irish nuns taught us Catechism of the Catholic Church, I still have
knots on my head from a half century ago. There were no Bible readings
like in my Protestant cousin's schools. Let's see, there was Sister
Torture, Sister Autopsy, Sister Defenestration, Sister Execution, Sister
Exsanguination. My first grade teacher was Sister Godzilla, an
American then the principal, Mother Mothra. The Parish priest was Father
Bigfoot. We small children were controlled and made to behave
through the production of shear terror. As a result, I have absolutely
no fear of terrorists but I do have an inexplicable fear of giant albino
penguins, they invaded my dreams for many years. ^_^
s taught us Catechism of the Catholic Church, I still have
Scissor attacks!!!! That's worst than the worst ruler across the knuckles
story I've ever hear, and I grew up across the street from a huge Catholic
complex (church, rectory, bingo hall, convent, school and monsignor's
castle). They do have a different playbook than public schools (where I
went, although I took catechism classes in the Catholic school. At 60 to 70
kids to a class, they made do by seriously downsizing the furniture. It was
like a visit to Russia.
Sure you do. You write about them all the time. I don't know why. What a
terrorist would want in your neck of the woulds I can't imagine. Now here
in the DC area they have apparently unfinished business. People don't seem
to remember that 9/11 was an encore performance. They tried once before and
failed but kept trying. I worry that's the logic behing their next set of
There's something about that face in the oval of white. Back in my time
nuns wore habits. I don't think they do know, at least not like the old
days. What's that Cheech and Chong riff, Sister Mary Elephant?
Good morning, class. Good morning, class. Class? Class!? SHUT UP!!!!! Thank
As you know your regular teacher Sister Rosetta Stone is on a small
vacation. However she does send her love, at least fingerpaintings, and desk
club she`s making. I am your substitute teacher, Sister Mary Elephant.
Class, attention. Attention, class! Class? SHUT UP!!!!! Thank you.
Young man, now give me that knife. (Knife hits wall) Thank you.
Now class, you all know who I am, so let`s find out who you are.
Class? Class!? SHUT UP!!!!!
Maybe so. I don't have a problem with you personally, BTW. It's that
annoying sig. line that provokes this (and has for years). I (and many
more) don't want religion pushed in their face. Your sig. is
provocative, and leads to OT crap in a home repair group.
I don't care about the sig line because religious expression is not
prohibited and shouldn't be.
I do find the top posting to purposely annoy people in a group where
everyone bottom posts bizarre though.
In the home-repair venue it's unexpected and unwanted. How many other
participants do you see wearing their religion on each post they make?
How many of those actually solicit you to click a link for
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