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She was a SB when she was a kid, living in Texas, then again after >forty years, after moving back South. No, the Methodist church she was a member of did a hard left turn, after most of the congregation made it perfectly clear they wanted to go "straight".

Yes, the congregation had *no* choice. She, and many in the congregation showed them that, yes, they did have a choice.

Theology without practice isn't worth much. She didn't join a Unitarian Universalists church (which, we got married in, BTW) but she might just as well have, after the shift.

Nope. She *was* at one of the more conservative of the churches but it was under new management. Since there is no input from the congregation, she and a *bunch* of others left.

You've *got* to be kidding. ;-)
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On 5/31/2011 11:09 PM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: ...

Well, I'll make one last comment.
Under the UM Book of Discipline there is a church council every member of the church is automatically a member of this council. Decisions on changing a local church mission direction such as this are made by a vote in such a council. So, there is a mechanism to have a say/make a choice.
Now, often only a very small minority of the congregation members will bother to show up and make their opinions known and cast their vote, but that's no the same thing as having no choice.
Whether that happened in this instance or not I have no way of knowing, of course, but there is a process that gives local congregations quite a lot of leeway; it isn't absolutely forced from the outside w/ no recourse. OTOH, while I fail to understand why, it seems that many are often more pleased to not participate but then complain when the decision didn't go to their liking.
Pastor/Parish Committee can even recommend a replacement for a pastor that is not in communion w/ the majority of the congregation or even reject a new pastor appointment (albeit this is rare, it has and does happen on occasion).
--
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They gave them *no* choice. Something like half the congregation left and they were having problems paying their bills afterward. Tough.

Vote? There was no vote.

They had to pick from three or four pastors. One they interviewed one (and had them as a guest pastor) they had to decide up or down on that pastor. They could not come back to him/her later. The third was automatic. They didn't choose which ones to interviews, either. *Very* poorly done.
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On 6/1/2011 6:41 PM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Who was "they" and "them" here? Sounds like again, that the leadership council made a decision and as so often is the case, a large portion didn't participate.
If it was a bloc schism, that's unfortunate but things like that do, unfortunately, happen. It isn't however, a fault of the UM Church as an organization but of an individual congregation is the point.

Where was the Church Council and the congregation annual Charge Conference during all this? Again, methinks "there's more to the story" here...
Ά 252. 1. Purpose—The church council shall provide for planning and implementing a program of nurture, outreach, witness, and resources in the local church. It shall also provide for the administration of its organization and temporal life. It shall envision, plan, implement, and annually evaluate the mission and ministry of the church. The church council shall be amenable to and function as the administrative agency of the charge conference (Ά 244). ...
I would certainly have expected any major shift in programs or missions of the congregation to have been brought to the annual charge conference for authorization.
As I feared, this has gotten too far afield and too involved into the particulars of one particular congregation to be possible to sort out anything at all.
I will contend, however, that it isn't an indictment of the UM organization as a whole but within a single congregation.
If there, I'm sure I'd been on the phone w/ the District Superintendent and the Bishop on more than one occasion... :)

That also doesn't really sound right...part of the UM way is that Conference (the Bishop, primarily altho w/ advice) assigns pastors for everybody w/ a modicum of acceptance/rejection by the congregation. I would not expect for the senior pastor to be more than a single or perhaps a choice of a couple under a suggestion from the bishop.
Unlike some others who hire independently. That's just part of "the Methodist way"--has been; will always be. If it's not a fit; rarely will such an appointment last more than a couple of years, however in my observation of some 60 years or so. Sometimes there's lessons to be learned from some of these that aren't "comfortable" initially, too, though... :)
Anyway, sounds like it's all water under the bridge at this point so I'll really sign off now...
--
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I don't remember what they're called, but the regional church hierarchy (Bishop level).

My wife was on the search committee. Does that count for "didn't participate"?

No, it was *not* at the congregation level. It was *forced* down on them.

Probably. It was six or eight years ago and I tried to stay out of it. When one has a seriously pissed SWMBO, it's sometimes hard to pull off. ;-)
<snip>

Ditto.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

I hope you tell the truth and tell them it's really a kludged together bastardization of Christianity.
Wiki: "Under the doctrine of continuing revelation, Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus leads the church by revealing his will to its President, whom adherents regard as a modern-day "prophet, seer, and revelator." The current President is Thomas S. Monson. "
To subscribe to that faith one would have to believe the "boss" of the church has a direct hotline to God. No one else, only the "President"...(are you sure you're just not running a corporation?) gets to tell his minions what God wants them to do. Nice little cult you have there, I rank it right up there with Scientology. Both need to have their tax-exempt status revoked. It's all about the $$$$, right? That's why you force your children out in pairs to 'convert' people by knocking on my door all the time. Selling religion, what a concept.
I politely tell your missionaries I'm Jewish and close the door. They have not come up with a good come-back to that one (yet), it's probably being worked on in the sales dept. as we type.
--

~G (not Jewish or member of any organized 'religion, but I've studied
most... including your sub-sect.)
  Click to see the full signature.
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You mean, like the Pope?

You mean like the Catholic Church?

Whatever you do, don't tell them you're a Druid!
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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Yup, isn't he an ex-Nazi?

Yup.
Oh, good one! I think I'm gonna go with "Pagan" next time.
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Don't do it! A friend made that mistake when they woke him up the morning after a college finals bender. He became their personal mission. He *had* to be saved.
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So your position is that the Catholics aren't Christian?

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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

I didn't say that.
Of course they are.
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Your position WRT LDS is strange, given that.
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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Why? The Catholic's don't make up their own "Holy Books" and pass them off as "Gospel". Of course, the Vatican has *removed* original Books from the Bible were incompatible with their control of the flock.
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On 6/1/2011 10:01 PM, G. Morgan wrote:

The Irish nuns taught us Catechism of the Catholic Church, I still have knots on my head from a half century ago. There were no Bible readings like in my Protestant cousin's schools. Let's see, there was Sister Torture, Sister Autopsy, Sister Defenestration, Sister Execution, Sister Exsanguination. My first grade teacher was Sister Godzilla, an American then the principal, Mother Mothra. The Parish priest was Father Bigfoot. We small children were controlled and made to behave through the production of shear terror. As a result, I have absolutely no fear of terrorists but I do have an inexplicable fear of giant albino penguins, they invaded my dreams for many years. ^_^
TDD
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<stuff snipped>
s taught us Catechism of the Catholic Church, I still have

Scissor attacks!!!! That's worst than the worst ruler across the knuckles story I've ever hear, and I grew up across the street from a huge Catholic complex (church, rectory, bingo hall, convent, school and monsignor's castle). They do have a different playbook than public schools (where I went, although I took catechism classes in the Catholic school. At 60 to 70 kids to a class, they made do by seriously downsizing the furniture. It was like a visit to Russia.

Sure you do. You write about them all the time. I don't know why. What a terrorist would want in your neck of the woulds I can't imagine. Now here in the DC area they have apparently unfinished business. People don't seem to remember that 9/11 was an encore performance. They tried once before and failed but kept trying. I worry that's the logic behing their next set of targets.

There's something about that face in the oval of white. Back in my time nuns wore habits. I don't think they do know, at least not like the old days. What's that Cheech and Chong riff, Sister Mary Elephant?
http://www.justsomelyrics.com/2047354/Cheech-and-Chong-Sister-Mary-Elephant-Lyrics
Good morning, class. Good morning, class. Class? Class!? SHUT UP!!!!! Thank you. As you know your regular teacher Sister Rosetta Stone is on a small vacation. However she does send her love, at least fingerpaintings, and desk club she`s making. I am your substitute teacher, Sister Mary Elephant. Class, attention. Attention, class! Class? SHUT UP!!!!! Thank you. Young man, now give me that knife. (Knife hits wall) Thank you. Now class, you all know who I am, so let`s find out who you are. Class? Class!? SHUT UP!!!!!
-- Bobby G.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

Maybe so. I don't have a problem with you personally, BTW. It's that annoying sig. line that provokes this (and has for years). I (and many more) don't want religion pushed in their face. Your sig. is provocative, and leads to OT crap in a home repair group.
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On 6/2/2011 2:53 PM, G. Morgan wrote:

I don't care about the sig line because religious expression is not prohibited and shouldn't be.
I do find the top posting to purposely annoy people in a group where everyone bottom posts bizarre though.
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George wrote:

In the home-repair venue it's unexpected and unwanted. How many other participants do you see wearing their religion on each post they make?
How many of those actually solicit you to click a link for indoctrination?
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And furthermore (damn, I swore I wouldn't get involved in this!) many of us probably know much more about The Subject than you do!
HB
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Higgs Boson wrote:

The subject of LDS church? Have at it....
I'll just put a link to the KKK signup page on my sig. and I'm sure no one will mind..?
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