Air Lifting

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I want to lift water about 20 feet from my truck to the storage tank on the second floor of my cabin.
I used to be a commercial diver, and have used many types of "airlifts." This is a device where a suction is created by venturi-ing air into a line in the direction you want it to flow. In real underwater conditions, the air expands as it rises, increasing the suction power. It really sucks up whatever is in front of the nozzle.
I was playing with the idea of buying a pump that I could pump water from my truck tank up to the storage tank of the cabin. (This is just for winter use. In the warm months, there is a water system.) I am running into the problem that a lot of them just don't have a lot of head pressure. And they cost a lot. And they require special plumbing connectors. A small compressor would not have to put out a lot of air to lift the water in a 1/2" line and get it to rise up. The bubbles will push the water up and rise automatically.
Anyone else ever done this? Venturiing is a good way to make suction devices for all manner of applications, and they are really safe because they just use air or water.
Steve
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You just need a pump which produces over 20 feet of head. I bet one of those drill pumps would do it slowly, although initial lubrication might be an issue. You would need to produce a pretty strong vacuum to draw water up 20 feet. I bet an RV water pump would work well. Other possibilities - used pumps - sprinkler, spa, pool, household water, etc. Or, Pressurise the truck tank with your compressor, if it can take the pressure.
Bob
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Seems like the hard way to me. I think it will cost more to do as you propose than you can buy a pump for!
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber76 but it may be a tad short on lift.
How much are you willing to pay? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber703
Here is a stainless steel one that will work. http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 05101121113216&item=2-1245-A&catname=water
12 volt. http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 05101121113216&item=2-1261&catname=water
Greg
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SteveB wrote:

Somehow it just doesn't seem as though lifting water that distance should be so difficult (unless you are talking bucket on a rope). For $40.00 you can buy a simple centrifugal pump that is rated at a 23ft lift. http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2DC126FB
Spend more and you can get a bit more lift and volume but unless you are going to be doing this frequently I don't know if it would be a big thing to just spend the extra time watching it work and spend the money you saved on beer.
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
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A pump that pumps to a 23 foot head probably isn't going to move much water at 20 feet.
Bob
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wrote:

You have to read the whole rating. A pump is rated at "X" GPM at a given head. This pump ad says the max suction lift is 23' It will pump UP against the head a lot higher I imagine. They don't have the GPM/head curve in this ad.
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wrote in message news:UGZ2f.11947

The ad says max lift with no mention of suction. The pump will pump a little water 23 feet up, and not much more. It is obviously a sump pump. Sump pumps don't generally generate much pressure.
Bob
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wrote:

Bob, you didn't open the more infornmation link
"Max Suction Lift: 22.96ft."
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is
You are dead right on that. I stand corrected.
Bob

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Just got home from the Borg with a pump that will pump up to 60' high. $80.
I will still do the venturi experiment and let everyone know how it works.
Any bets? Predictions? Mind bets?
Steve
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You'll quickly give up on it and stick to the pump.
Bob
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Oh, I know. I just think that a venturi configured right, and with approximately 40psi input can move a lot of water fast. I may use the principle to move water for a stream or waterfall on my property.
As with every experiment, you have an idea, then try to see if it was right or wrong.
In metalworking, I have had MANY (repeat) MANY projects that didn't work.
That's the beauty of it. You can have an idea, sweat over it, try it, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. The good thing is that you aren't paying someone else by the hour to do all the ball scratching and nosepicking. Of course, you will have SOME time in it, and some co$t$, but if you are lucky, you don't get soaked too bad.
And then, there are the times when the thing works darn good. And then there are times when it winds up in the "what is this" pile behind the garage.
I once had someone tell me that welders are problem solvers. People come to them with problems, and they reason them out and make a solution. That I was getting paid to figure out solutions rather than weld. Hell, you can teach a monkey to wirefeed.
I don't know how many times I have sat bolt upright in bed at 2 AM, and said, "Eureka!" when faced with a problem. Or been on the throne when the ray of light hit my dark side. It comes when you aren't trying to find it.
So, airlifting isn't about moving water or whether or not it will work.
It's all about attitude.
And, as a welder, I have been accused of having an attitude more than once.
Of course, nothing was ever proven in court.
Anyone can make a gate. Fix a motor mount. Make something out of metal. It's when you figure things out and make them work that differentiates between the mechanics and the talented. Negative or positive.
YMMV.
Steve
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It may work. But it will be very inefficient. The pump will use way less energy for the water it moves. Air compressors are not very efficient devices for moving energy.
I use my air compressor with a sandblast nozzle to spray trees. It atomizes the water well. It takes about 20 minutes of spraying to empty a bucket of water. through a 6 foot 3/8" I.D. hose.
Bob
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wrote:

The only way I see an air compressor working is if the pickup tube was in the bottom on the truck tank and the tank was sealed. At about 9 PSI you would have 20 feet of head. At that point you just have a garden "tank sprayer". As long as the liquid in the tank is at ambient air pressure you are not going to bubble anything up the pipe very far.
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wrote:

Just for grins, I'll make a prediction. The venturi will absolutely work, even if the venturi is above the lower tank water level. A good venturi design will pull it to the top tank.
The air lift (bubble effect) may work depending on the size of tubing. I would guess 1/4" of less. Seems the air would have to be introduced below the water level. Probably would be more efficient with controlled timing of the bubble release.
Any timetable on project completion?
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wrote:

Draw a picture of what you're planning to hook up where, and I'll predict the results..
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Bob wrote:

Just a note: In a technical listing "lift" regarding pumps is ALWAYS the suction height. Head is what it will lift to. I see the point was clarified below. The pump under discussion is going to deliver all he wants plus some. Probably empty his truck tank in under a minute.
Second note: Max theoretical suction for any pump is 34 ft at sea level dropping as altitude rises. For practical purposes allowing for tolerances, slippage, pipe friction etc. a rule of thumb is 26' unless you are very high. The 23 ft spec is well within reason for this pump.
Harry K
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From the ad (my emphasis):
o 1/8 HP 110 Volt motor 2.5 Amps o Polypropylene pump housing will not rust or corrode 0 *****Max Suction Lift: 22.96ft. ****** o 1in. outlet diameter o Pumps up to 1326 GPH/22 GPM o Clog-preventing, vortex-style impeller o Durable epoxy powder-coat finish and stainless steel rotor shaft o 10ft. power cord o Dimensions: 6in.W Bottom x 4in.W Top x 10 1/2in.H Top

22 gallons per minute is not a "little water" - that's twice the volume of water that is handled by a little pump that i use regularly.
It sounds like a pump that might do what the OP wants.
Mike
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Michael Daly wrote:

....
....
Pretty kewl! 22' 11-33/64" instead of 23'! :)
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Bob wrote:

Even if it does move water very slowly, what is lost besides a few hours of time? A pump doesn't need to be watched for it to work so OP can be doing something else while it moves the water at its own pace. This looked like a cheap solution for a job which probably won't be done very often or need to be done quickly.
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
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