The system here in NJ turns it off. They all have to do it that way for some key reasons. One is it has to have significant effect. Even if you operated the AC with your "altered waveform", you could only reduce the power going in slightly. Second, it has to be cheap. A relay is cheap, power control electronics for 50 amps isn't. And finally, turning it on and off, there is no risk to burning up the motor. When you try to run all kinds of AC units on some kind of reduced power, no telling what would happen.
The electric company here in Nashville, TN had the program. They installed their control on A/Cs. During peak load some of my customers would call because their home was too hot. I found after checking the systems that all that was wrong was the electricity saving device was keeping the AC from running, and when the unit came back on it couldn't catch up. Removed device and customer was happy, and I was happy. $$
You should read more carefully. I said they were pulled out of my ass. Telling me they're wrong is not helpful. Publish better numbers.
You've demonstrated your ability to examine part of the problem. Back off and look at the big picture. Air conditioning load has so many contributors that the utility can view it as a load that varies very slowly over the day. There's a load that is the sum of the averages of all the A/C units over some time period. Exactly which unit is on for how long affects the average not at all.
There probably is some step increase in the afternoon when all the home units turn on before the owners get home and run at 100% for the rest of the day. It would be interesting to see what the numbers would look like if people just let their A/C run all day to eliminate that step.
When capacity is exceeded, the utility has to shed load. If everybody has the shutoff option, everybody suffers equally and not much. If only a few people representing a small portion of that average load have signed up, they bear the brunt of the load shedding.
They are willing to take the money, but bitch when the utility cuts them off. We're a greedy, bitchy bunch.
If you've got better numbers than mine, publish them. There has to be an analysis online somewhere.
I'm not insisting on anything. The specific case quoted here (not by me) was a rare incident where the utility used the insurance they had bought from the customer and turned off his A/C 100% per their contract.
"There seems to be a math aversion in this thread. " "Do the math", as if we all just can't do the simple math required to analyze the problem. Then you came up with a set of numbers that as you say were pulled out of your ass. So, what exactly is your point? If you don't have realistic numbers, then what good is "doing the math"?
1 + 1 =3D 2. That math is as relevant to the issue at hand as anything you've posted.
Yes it is helpful, because it shows that contrary to your claim of "do the math", you're basicly clueless because doing math with garbage proves nothing. Yet it apparently gives you comfort. Go figure.
Which is more than I can say for you....
It doesn't matter which unit is on for how long. But it does matter how many of them are on at the same time. The example I just gave you shows how the utility can shed load. And it's not an unrealistic model. There is going to be a distribution of cycle times on hot, peak demand days. Everything from some AC's running
100% of the time to some that are not on at all. If the utility can lower the duty cycle, they can lower demand.
Again, per the clear example I gave you, that isn't true. The person who has his AC setback and it's not running at all, doesn't "suffer" at all. The person who has his AC running less than the duty cycle the utility is going to allow them, doesn't "suffer". If you system was running 15 mins an hour and the utility throttles all the AC they have control over back to 15 mins an hour, you don't see any difference. If you system was running 20 mins an hour and they throttle it back to 15, then you will see some temp rise. Is that really suffering? And if it was running constantly and they throttle it back to 20 mins, then yeah, the temp is going to rise somewhat. Is that "suffering" if the temp goes from 72 to
76?
Well, duh.... The utility can only shed load of those that have signed up.
So, I ask again. Do you have any actual experience with these load management systems? I had it for over 10 years. And there is no bitching here. The only bitching I've seen is from one poster where they cut him off for 8 hours straight. That has never happened here and I don't believe it's representative of how most of these systems are used.
Maybe you should find that before telling us all to "do the math...."
Non answer to perhaps the most relevant question noted.
Where do you live? I want to make sure I don't move there. I pay around $500 a year.
Sorry if I abbreviated too much. I asked a question about a power control device on the compressor and the first zillion responses were about programmable thermostats. Finally someone answered my question with "no, it won't hurt your compressor" and then a few others went off on how the device doesn't work.
I get paid every two weeks and send them twenty bucks each payday. I don't worry about the excess because I'm sure I'll use it eventually. If and when it gets too high, I'll adjust my amount downward.
I heat with electricity. My highest bills (February and August) are around $200. The total is probably around $2200 per year. Do you pay less for heat and electricity (including AC). Where?
Actually, those numbers are for the old house. I haven't lived here a year yet but it's probably more (40% larger and more of a ranch than a two-story).
That's an odd way to run a budget but whatever floats your boat. I don't let anyone have my money longer than necessary. Though I screwed up with the government this year, I'm sure.
My home seems to start to require more air conditioning around 4:00 PM and after. Peak is around 6:00 PM. The brick on the house stays hot on the southwest side until dark. It's also where the condenser is. Daytime temp around 73-74 degrees, unless I'm doing labor inside. Around bedtime I often turn temp on 68 or 67 degrees. Becoming rare, are comfort nights where outside temp is below 70 at bedtime, where I could use fans. From unique monthly electric bills, I don't seem to use much more electricity in the summer. $15 at most. My basement stays cool without air, and I have less than 1000 sq feet ranch.
Indiana. Temperature range 10°F to 90°F (occasionally even wider)
The simplicity more than compensates for the minimal loss of interest.
I used to "not let anyone have my money longer than necessary" and at least once a year I'd hang onto it a day too long and the late fee was far more than the pittance of interest it brought me.
There's a way around that. Pre-authourized withdrawals - we do it on the credit card - and pay only what is owed that month - not a "budget plan" Works good. Just pay the credit card once a month - no billing dates to worry about - and no interest as long as you pay the card off every month. And 3% bonus on the card to boot.
You didn't use a question mark. I answered the one that was an obvious question. As for the other, 26 times $38 is close to my annual gas and electricity.
Been about three years for me since I adopted the every payday method. I do use online control, with the emphasis on the control. If I have to constantly monitor to ensure an automatic payment doesn't bounce, I might as well just trigger the payment myself.
Internet is nice, but can't stop the postman from delivering the bill to the wrong house. But I've had too much trouble with online statements to completely give up paper.
(I get a kick out of the ones that beg me to save a tree by going electronic. If they really wanted to save a tree, I wouldn't have to discard (without reading) several advertisements from every one of their envelopes.
I think you can try it and see if it can really reduce your consumption. Otherwise, you can always have them remove the device right? Are they giving it out for free? Because if not, it may just be another scheme to earn money from you through the device. It's just not normal for an energy company to give away something that would make one's consumption cheaper. It's like saying I will give out a discount to your bill because I am generous. :)
The electric companies install them for free and offer some kind of payment. The reason is not to reduce your electric usage, but to temporarily decrease demand for electricity during PEAK periods. I've had it and they only activate it a few times a year. It saves the utility from having to build another power plant, or buy electricity at very high rates during peak periods. Yes, you probably will use a little less electricity, but it's not marketed as a device to save you energy costs.
Indiana. Temperature range 10°F to 90°F (occasionally even wider)
The simplicity more than compensates for the minimal loss of interest.
I used to "not let anyone have my money longer than necessary" and at least once a year I'd hang onto it a day too long and the late fee was far more than the pittance of interest it brought me.
In the case of the government, it's a matter or principle, for me. They don't get their money until the last instant. The check never goes out until 4/15. Ever.
Sure, but I'd rather have the flexibility of moving the money around, if necessary. My wife pays most of the bills automatically but the couple of CCs I pay are paid a couple of days before they're due. It's easy enough to do online. I think we only pay one or two bills by mail, anymore. Those, she can't figure out how to do automatically.
If you have withholding, they're getting a lot of it sooner. But there are ways to reduce that.
To each his own. I have more discretion now than ever. And the bill-paying style is the main reason. Before, every month we managed to miscalculate and arrive at a due date without money. Now everything in the bank the day after we know is fair game.
...and pay more later. I've paid the penalty in the past. It's not trivial.
I would rather not move money from/to savings to cover bills (it comes out easier than it goes in). If I can leave everything in the checking account until closer to its due date, it makes smoothing out the cash flow easier. We're never in the situation (anymore) where we're worried about spending what we don't have. Discretion? Perhaps, in both senses of the word.
Yeah, I *really* want to file taxes four times a year.
I used to have it nailed pretty well but since I "retired" I've had some really strange years. A lot of unexpected stuff. I'll have more for at least the next two years (rental and house sale). I want to err on the underwitheld side, no matter what the penalty.
I am *NOT* going to go through that crap four times a year. Once is obscene enough.
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