AFCI Fuse - is so annoying

[Zean Smith]

My house which is 1.5 years old has been having problem with the Siemens AFCI Fuse. According to the builder, this fuse is installed on 2nd floor for bedrooms for some reasons. The AFCI part of the fuse always get tripped after power interruption by local hydro company. I had to manually went to basement to reset it.

This AFCI is so stupid and annoying. It has been raining these days these days and it almost got tripped once a week! Never had any problem usually in sunny days because there is no power interruption.

1. Is it possible to replace it with the regular Fuse? I am really sick of this. Will that violate the electrical code??
2. This is so annoying that I even tried to unplug computers, light fixture but didn't help, still got same problem. Any other suggestions?
3. Should get another AFCI Fuse? maybe the one I have is defected??

Help....

[Jeff Wisnia]

What you are calling a fuse is likely what informed folks in the USA wuld call a circuit breaker, in your case it's an Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI) type.

It's becoming code required for new construction to prevent things like squashed extension cords from creating holocausts, they "open" when they sense a spikey current flow through them, as occurs from an arcing crushed cord.

I'd suggest that you not replace it with a regular breaker, for safety's sake plus if something bad did happen and an inspector found what you'd done, insurance might not pay for the damage.

Have you tried consulting with the power company and/or Seimens to see if there's a cure for what your encountering?

Will it trip if you turn your main circuit breaker off and on, or does it just happen when the power company has problems?

Let us know what you find out, I for one am interested in learning more about those AFCIs.

HTH,

Jeff

[RBM]

These are first generation AFCI devices. As with a lot of new technology, there are often problems with early models. If it wasn't to much of a bother, I'd wait for newer generation units before replacing it. It would be a violation of NEC to replace it with a non AFCI unit

[Goedjn]

Yes, you can replace it with a regular breaker, and yes, doing so will violate code.

You might be able to get some sort of device for your house main that shuts the power off when it goes out, and resets itself only after getting clean power for an arbitrary period of time.

[EXT]

You use the term "hydro" when referring to the electricity utility, that means you are in Ontario, or Quebec, Canada. If you are in Ontario, it would be against the electrical code to remove it. I don't know about Quebec, they do things differently, but usually before Ontario mandates things.

[thrugoodmarshall]

My house (which is just about 1 year old; moved in August 2004) had AFCIs.

Tons of nuisance trips, especially when powering off an inductive load (ceiling fan). Code requires them for all the bedrooms.

I talked to the Siemens rep at a trade show (I do industrial electrical controls). He hemmed & hawed & suggested I take it back for a new one.

I talked to some electricians (house wiring folks; not plant (factory) electricians), and the general consensus is that they're worthless due to nuisance trips.

They've been required in receptacles since Jan1, 2002. They're required in bedrooms only, and they're intended to protect against fires started by arcing (short to ground).

Some background on why and when these are required:

And, from underwriters laboratories: I suggest you look into the risks and make an informed decision for yourself.

Personally, I believe that in my house, my decision supersedes code requirements. It's my house, dammit. I reviewed the risks, and evaluated the nuisance costs to my wife and myself, and then removed them and installed regular breakers.

Zean Smith wrote:

[thrugoodmarshall]

arcing (short to ground) sorry, that's not what AFCI is for; that's just the first thing that came to mind when I though ARC. My bad!

Short-to-ground is protected by a regular breaker. You'll get nice fat spark if you do this, but you don't need AFCI to detect it.

AFCI tries to detect all the other types of arc that don't trip an overcurrent breaker.

They accomplishing this by watching the waveform and figuring out what a bad arc looks like.

They actually have an algorithm (computer program) to detect this.

Again, from the consumer products safety commission:

Again, sorry for the sloppy (wrong) definition of arc earlier!

[Percival P. Cassidy]

A year or more ago I replaced a regular breaker by an AFCI breaker in a bedroom circuit in our 30-yr-old house, and it's never tripped once.

This is a Cutler-Hammer CH panel and breaker. Perhaps Siemens hasn't yet figured out how to build them right.

Perce

On 11/10/05 09:31 am [e-mail] tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

[kevin]

Yikes. You lose power once a week? What's wrong with your utility company? Many parts of even rural West Africa aren't that unreliable.

-Kevin

[John Grabowski]

I seem to recall reading an article in one of the trade magazines that mentioned earlier versions of the AFCI circuit breakers were subjected to nuisance trips. If this is the case, you might want to replace yours with a brand new one. There is the possibility that it is not nuisance tripping and that there is something genuinely wrong with your wiring. If you install a new one and have the same problem, call an electrician.

[Goedjn]

From the OP's description, the breakers are tripping because they *ARE* detecting an arc fault, only on the supply side instead of the load side.

[gfretwell]

An AFCI will also trip when it sees a neutral to ground short. That is part of the GFP protection (30ma GFCI) This usually happens in that big cludge box in the ceiling and gets blamed on the fan. I would knock gently on any ceiling fixture bell or fan bells and see if you can cause a trip. If so open up the box and put a wrap of tape on the wirenuts. I bet there is a little exposed wire on the neutral. That never bothered anything until we started looking at ground faults.

[Chip C]

A while ago in this NG someone posted that at their work, AFCI's (which had been installed everywhere in some ill-conceived scheme) routinely tripped whenever anyone plugged in a fluorescent desk lamp that was switched on. The same would probably apply to having the power come on with the same kind of lamp plugged in. So for point 2 above, did you unplug everything before the power came back on? I'd try that.

Chip C

[wkearney99]

Then, personally, you'll have no one but yourself to blame when the house burns down and kills your family in the process because you wanted to circumvent code. Oh and the insurance company will doubtless tell you to sod off on any claims you might want to make. So g'head and replace it, you'll only risk being homeless, broke and alone.

[wkearney99]

Pfft, try suburban DC. Pepco can't keep power running without interruption for more than a week.

[some user]

This kind of comments are annoying. Few of homes, except the very new ones, use AFCI. My home, built in 2000, has none. Are you saying most of us are really in danger of buring alive because we don't have AFCI?

I bet you are much more likely to die in an auto accident, earth quake, or even fall from your bed, then from lack of AFCI.

[hwm54112]

From reading the post, it appears that it only trips when power is lost I think that's what they're supposed to do-open when there is a loss o current. Just as GFCI's open when there is no current to them

-- hwm5411

----------------------------------------------------------------------- hwm54112's Profile:

this thread: