Advice requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home

[amdx]

Ya, I am to. But first let me say this, The first spec you posted,

0* 14' plus or minus 10', seems this isn't as critical as some posters are making it. For toe, it is still a trig problem, but the problem is defining, side b (a reference point).

I wonder do the shops attach a laser and measure on a wall scale a defined distance away?

I don't know this, is it a single adjustment that moves both wheels or do you adjust both wheels separately? (makes a reference even more important) Sorry just thinking on the keypad.

You have a trig problem and a measurement problem. The measurement problem is more difficult.

It is not be hard to convert the 14 minutes to inches using the wheel diameter as one line. The angle is how much more is the front of the wheel turned in more than the rear of the wheel. I'll call the wheel 16" from front to rear. (just realized this almost the same trig problem for camber, just rotated 90*)

I'm using the trig calculator above, this time the orientation is correct. Put the following numbers in, (side c) = 16, (angle A) = .233. The angle is .233 because 14min/60min = .233. Your answer is (side a) which is 0.065". So, you want the rear of a 16" wheel stick out 0.065" more than the front. Not real easy to measure, But, if you could extend the 16" to 12 ft (192") with a laser pointer, then (side a) is 0.781". The laser must be perfectly square with the wheel. Just some thinking. Hope it makes some sense. Mikek

[makolber]

to the OP

consider using mirrors and a laser pointer.

The hard part is a fixture that can attach a small mirror to the wheel accurately.

have fun

Mark

[John Harmon]

Now that I've done some more research, I have a better handle on 'toe' so I'm going to agree with you that getting toe precise to 2 minutes isn't all that important, in all likelihood.

For *setting* toe, especially in the rear, it could easily be that 0 toe (degrees or inches) would be just fine, or, maybe, to take up some suspension slop, a "smidgeon" of toe (maybe 1/16th of an inch or less in linear dimension no matter what the wheel/tire diameter).

This is to take up the slop in the suspension (perhaps slightly more in the front if it's a typical RWD like all my vehicles are).

I'm still confused how to convert toe from degrees to inches, but luckily, there are web sites that will do it for us.

Interesting you mention that, because the reason for the *far away* wall is simply that the angle is small, right?

If you are talking about toe, I'm no expert, but the way I understand it is that you lock the steering wheel in the center position first (which has nothing, per se, to do with alignment but with esthetics) - and then - you pick a side, and twist a tie-rod ever so slightly - which - depending on the direction of twist, moves the front of the wheel in toward the centerline of the vehicle - or outward.

So it's one wheel at a time, measured to the centerline. Of course, you can assume all sorts of symmetries and do both wheels at the same time, but conceptually I think of toe as a wheel-to-centerline thing, to be done one at a time.

That's an interesting observation that the measurement problem is more difficult, but I think only if we try to measure degrees of toe.

If we measure inches of toe, the measurement problem is conceptually trivially simple.

I'm trying to find the triangle in the equation of toe in order to figure out how to convert the distance measurement to an angle.

Here I just drew what is my first pass guess at where that triangle lies:

Is *this* the trigonometric angle everyone is talking about?

You make a good point here in that we really have a 3-dimensional X, Y, and Z axis, each of which is rotated by 90 degrees (caster, camber, and toe).

Just to ask to get me more firmly grounded, is *this* the triangle everyone is talking about?

[tlvp]

So don't measure in inches. If you have tools to measure camber in degrees, you can surely repurpose them to measure toe-in in degrees also, no? HTH.

Cheers, -- tlvp

[John Harmon]

I agree that attaching a flat plate to the wheel itself is a jig that would be useful.

I think the mirror and laser pointer are to get this triangle?

Is that the right triangle?

[Joerg Lorenz]

The problem is obviously not the hardware; it is the user.

*SCNR*

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 09.12.16 um 20:46 schrieb nospam:

*FACK*

[tlvp]

Same here, but about temperatures using wall thermometers: people always spec out temperature in degrees but all I see is how many inches the column of mercury is, no idea how to convert degrees into inches here either :-) .

Can you help :-) ? Cheers, -- tlvp

[Andy Burns]

Smartphones contain 3-axis accelerometer chips and magnetic compass chips, but AFAIK (unlike digital levels) they don't contain an inclinometer chip, so the accuracy from a phone is not likely to be high, the "bubble level" apps you can get for phones are a bit of a joke, they'll probably be influenced by large chunks of metal nearby.

The spec of the MEMS inclinometers in digital levels seems to be +/-6 minutes when measuring horizontal or vertical and +/-12 minutes for other angles, so even they would be marginal.

[Xeno]

You might find these links useful

Note, if you alter camber, toe will alter and you will need to check and adjust if required.

HTH

[amdx]

If either of those devices had a laser pointer in them that point up, you could do a trig problem using the ceiling for camber, and on the front wall by rotating the device 90* for toe.

Hey, just noticed your link,

has the sears level shown here,

The Sears level does have a laser in it. That will do what I suggest, rotate it 90* and point it forward to see a spot on the wall. Find the centerline of your car and then it's a simple trig problem. The hard part, finding the centerline of your car. I'm not sure this helps you though, I saw no evidence that you understood how the trig solves turning the angle into inches. Mikek

[Tekkie®]

[e-mail] posted for all of us...

+1 and gaining BMW=$$$

[Tekkie®]

[e-mail] posted for all of us...

+5 and high school math... He could go back to school and learn all this for less bux than he wasted-not to mention our time.

Drive it to the BMW shop and tell them you want it set to the preferred settings. Make certain all your bushings and arms and their esoterically named crap is brand new because as it wears it will change. Don't hit any curbs, potholes, driveways, obstructions of any sort, or drive it period. Better get new springs too as they will sag and take everything out of the trunk. If it's a convertible weld some stiffeners along the top. Have your partner and you control their weight. Fill up with gas first. Get all pebbles, stones and other safarcus out of the treads. Make certain the tire pressure is within a 10/th of a pound. I am sure I am forgetting something...

[Bill Vanek]

I too am starting to wonder if this guy is nuts, or maybe just a troll. There is some very simple math involved here.

[Tekkie®]

Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us...

Aw shucks, I wasn't even thinking of doing that... It's Saturday so should I just do it to keep the quota?

[nospam]

could be both.

and some common sense.

[Tekkie®]

[e-mail] posted for all of us...

Letz see up to +127 ?

[Tekkie®]

nospam posted for all of us...

Yeah, some single mother needs this to stimulate the economy.

[Tekkie®]

John Harmon posted for all of us...

The BMW sounds like a great value... Have you considered having it bronzed?

[Scott Dorsey]

Many of these are known problems. Things like the cooling system you need to plan to replace, and not just the expansion tank but also the thermostat body. You may want to consider one of the aftermarket water pumps that do not fail also, when it comes time to do your next water pump replacement.

If you haven't replaced your air plenum, you're probably about time for doing that to do. Do it before it fails.

These are _maintenance_ items that you know are going to fail, not _repair_ items that you fix when they break. You know it's going to happen, deal with it before it fails.

There's an aftermarket retrofit for this also.

There'a sheet on that one. you're supposed to clean it when you change your oil. And yes, you're supposed to change your oil often. Follow the extreme service schedule in the book or get the "old school maintenance" schedule from the BMWCCA.

Again, a lot of these are maintenance items, others (like the wood trim) I haven't heard of.

You should be on your third set of windshield molding by now if you are replacing it according to normal schedule and keeping the car outside.

The power steering leaks again are what you get if you don't purge the system annually like the manual says and don't change the hoses when they start to fail. By now you should have replaced every rubber part under the hood at least once. If you haven't replaced the pads in the shock towers and the differential mount, do them now.

Most of these things that went wrong are things that a mechanic familiar with the vehicle should have expected to go wrong and should have taken care of before they went wrong.

Yes, there's a lot of stuff to do every 3,000 miles including checking the rubber parts. Yes, there's a transmission fluid change and differential fluid change every 30,000 miles. Yes, you need to change your brake fluid every two years and your coolant every fall. There is a _lot_ of maintenance on these cars.

Do maintenance and you will not have to do so many repairs.

--scott