Adding air

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I have a 30x30 metal building. I have no windows. What would be the best and cheapest way to air condition it? I thought about a window unit but I have no windows and not sure if cutting the corregated metal would work right.
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stryped wrote:

Insulation first...
You can either install a window kit and have the luxury of a window as well or simply frame a unit into the wall if that isn't desirable but unless do something about the heat transfer unless it's an awfully benign climate it'll take a terribly oversized unit for the space to do much good.
--
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Well, you could add a window(s) first, and then add the window unit(s).
This pdf describes "the window you install after the metal siding is ijn place"
http://www.plyco.com/pdf/windows%20pdfs/windows%20aatl.pdf
Of course, unless the building is sealed/insulated/"tight", it going to be tough to *efficiently* keep the space cool.
Have you considered a big fan and an huge block of ice? ;-)
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wrote:

A window shaker will have to be pretty big to do 900 sq/ft of uninsulated space. You are probably looking at a ton and a half at least. I would look at a mini split system like a Sanyo 18KS72 or similar clone. Then you are just drilling a hole for the line set. I have one in our rec room and you can hardly hear it running standing right next to the condenser.
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Yeah, you might have boucou vibration.
Consider mini-splits. You can install 2-4 12,000 btu units, sequence them as needed. Even tho one unit might not cool the whole space, the area *near* the unit will be markedly cooler than areas farther away -- if you are going to be working in just one area for some while. Moveable partitions would help, as well. Or full partitions.
Much quieter than window units, more efficient, etc. They vary greatly in price, as well, and most seem to have heat pumps.
Also consider ceiling fans, and vents in the roof -- these can greatly reduce the heating load. Ceiling fans help in both summer AND winter, perhaps even more in winter. Ideally, summer/winter fans would not only change rotation, but would be height-adjustable, as well.
And yeah, insulate!!
You can also paint windows inside yer structure, with a sun, clouds, sky, etc.... Can really help!
--
EA



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wrote:

A big fan at the door or at another opening farthest from the open door will get your through then next month. More or less depending on where you live.
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Depends on the construction. You can easily cut a hole, but supporting a big enough AC will take some extra reinforcement. Add a couple of braces that take the weight on the ground. In reality, all you have to do is cut an opening the size of the ac, make a tray for it to rest on with legs secured in the ground, both inside and outside if needed, put the AC into place.
Next is air circulation. You may want to have a fan blowing the air around inside as 30' is a long way to go. As for size, that depends on how much insulation and ceiling height, etc. You may need two if you go for window shakers. They will be 220V on the larger size too.
You can always go for a split system.
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:19:54 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"

Window ACs work better when you don't waste a window on them. Most come with optional cases meant for going through a wall, but you might not need even that.

This reminds me of how I installed an AC in a 5th floor window. I was afraid it would fall out when in installed it or when I opened the window, so I made shelf, well nailed (nails at opposite angles) to the window sill, and supported on the cement ledge. Worked fine for the small AC. If only I'd made it 20 inches deep instead of ten......

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It is a metal building aand roof. It will have a 10 foot ceiling. Above that is the attic area.
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Window AC draw air in the sides, to dump the heat out the back. If you put them in a metal sleeve, they stop working.
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:40:41 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Then why do they make metal sleeves for them? Why do apartments come with metal sleeves already installed, waiting for ACs to be bought?
Why do motels always have their ACs in the metal sleeves? I'm sure the motel AC worked. It's longer ago, but I'm sure my brother's apartment AC also worked.
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just buy a goodman furnace or just air handler if you dont need heat with AC.
Window ACs cost a fortune to operate, when I replaced my window units with whole house air my electric bill in summer dropped by over a third, and its m,uch more comfy too. Plus we can see out the windows:)
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mm wrote:

window AC and thru-wall AC AIN'T the same thing. Some units go both ways, but most don't The 'motel' style units are usually a lot bigger, and often include a heater. Before central AC units got cheap, lotsa cheap apartment complexes did bulk deals on thru-wall units, and only installed the sleeves as units were built. They keep a dozen extra out back somewhere for ones that crap out or get killed by tenants. Major PITA when that brand or size goes out of production, and they have to scramble for a 'universal' one to fit that model-specific sleeve.
--
aem sends...

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wrote:

Then he should get one that is thru-wall or goes both ways.

Usually. I'm not counting the ones that are 3 feet wide or so, start at the floor and og up almost two feet, and the entire thing stick 8 inches into the room.

I don't think you're saying otherwise, but the heater is irrelevant to whether the sleeve is a problem when using the AC.

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I'd have to take a closer look, but doesn't enough of the AC unit stick out past the metal sleve so that the air intake fins are past the sleve and outside? Or alternatively, the sleeve could be wide enough so that there is an inch or so clearance on either side. In any case, they must work because they are common.
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On Apr 15, 7:02am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

So what do you guys think?
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On Apr 15, 7:02am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

What would you do in this situation? Just not fool with it? I could ger some fans I guess.
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wrote:

Since in other threads you are talking about insulation and an attic you have the same options as you would have in most homes.
In Florida with poorly insulated houses, big windows and lots of sun they usually use a quick rule of thumb as a ton (12,000 BTU) per 500 sq ft. With no windows and R-11 insulation in the walls (3.5" fiberglass batts) you should be OK with a ton and a half. The Bard wall hanger somebody mentioned is an option. That is the tall package style unit you see hanging on the side of a building. Another option is a regular split system with the Air handler hanging in the attic or below the ceiling near the center with some duct work distributing the air to the ends of the building.
Are you planning on installing this yourself, do you have a buddy in the trade or are you just calling someone? Other choices are the package unit on the ground with ductwork similar to the split system. This can be DIY since you are just supplying the ducts and the power. It comes fully charged and ready to go in that "package", or the big mini-split which may not be the best air mover but it is the easiest to do and they sell DIY setups for the mini. Move the air with some fans.
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On Apr 15, 2:19pm, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I will be doing this myself. I found a guy that has a Bryant 2 ton 2005 model that will deliver it for 500 dollars. How much shoudl I expect to pay in ductwork?
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wrote:

If you can get an HVAC supplier to sell you the stuff it is certainly less than $100 but that can be hard to do. They really like to protect their commercial customers. To do it right you need a few tools, a couple sheets of duct board, a box of flex duct, a roll of silver tape (not duct tape) and some fittings. The coolest tool for working with duct board is the cutter that makes a "V" shaped groove without breaking the outer paper for a perfectly mitered corner you don't have to seal. You need a wiper to seal down the tape, they might give you one but it is a dollar deal. The best way to seal the joints where duct board meets flex duct is mastic (gooey stuff that hardens) You need metal collars for that joint and metal boots for the duct grilles on the other end. Keep the flex duct tight and support it so it doesn't sag. It will perform virtually as well as metal duct. You can usually size the ducts based on the size of the hole in the unit and be OK. Do a little geometry and get the round flex ducts to equal or exceed the sq/in of the duct you build. As short as the ducts are it is not a huge problem if you are a little off but don't choke it.
I have a duct wheel I can run the numbers if you want to actually engineer this (a rotary slide rule deal). .
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