About recalls for runaway cars.

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On Mar 17, 3:40pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

:)
Harry K
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On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:40:24 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

It really should be right foot whiners. They are the people whinning about the world coming to an end. The left footers don't have any issues.
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On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:38:38 -0700 (PDT), Harry K

I don't know what you consider a long period. I hold my foot in the air for anywhere from perhaps a few seconds to half a minute. It moves back and forth between resting next to the pedal and hovering over the pedal when I want to be ready for braking. It's all just second nature. If traffic is slowing up ahead my left foot will shadow the brake without my right foot moving at all and I just maintain speed. I can easily cut a half second of reaction time if something happens, which translates to 44 extra feet to stop in at 60 mph and in the process I don't have to jerk the passengers back and forth taking my right foot off the gas to be ready. If I'm just cruising on the open road it's just resting on the floor of course.
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So in an emergency you LFB is useless as it gains nothing. And in traffic just adding a few feet following distance avoids the _need_ for it. You make an extremely poor case.
Harry K
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I agree with Harry. You can't keep a foot hoovering in the air ready to react at a moments notice. And even then, the tiny fraction of a second compared to just using your right foot is unlikely to make any material difference in the outcome. And now we have Ashton joining the original left foot braker in claiming that "covering" the brake pedal is a good idea. The example of using it when traffic ahead is slowing is particularly dumb. Here's my solution.. If traffic up ahead is slowing and the seperation is becoming too small for the speed, I move my right foot from the gas pedal and start applying the brakes to increase the distance, instead of relying on "covering" to shave a 1/10 of a second off my reaction time.
One thing is for sure, they will fail you during a driving test in NJ if you use left foot braking.
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On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 08:22:41 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

No one said they did 100% of the time.
And even then, the tiny fraction of a

Simply not true. In heavy traffic I can easily gain about a 50 foot advantage over a right foot braker all other things being equal.
And now we have Ashton joining

Because it is a good idea if you know how to do it properly. It's clear from the RFBer comments that you people haven't got the foggiest idea how to properly left FB. That's not a criticism, it's just a skill you never learned. I've mastered driving both manual and automatic transmission vehicles and braking with both my right and left feet. It does not present a problem for ME. You seem to believe that you are not capable of mastering it and if that's the case I would encourage you to continue to use your right foot, I would not want to be responsible for you having an accident when you got confused as to which foot to use to press on the huge number of pedals in your car.
The example of using it when traffic ahead is

Yes, god forbid someone drive in a defensive manner that gains them 50 extra feet of stopping distance compared to your technique.
Here's my solution.. If traffic up

And I encourage you to continue to drive within whatever limited skill set you have.

I'm glad to hear that you hold the opinions of low paid civil servants with zero special training in driving in such high regard.
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And how would you know that besides just throwing out some number as BS? Prove it.

LOL Let me get this right. A situation arises while driving where you are getting too close to other cars in traffic. My solution and that of any safe driver is to take my foot of the throttle and start braking to slow down and increase the seperation distance. Your solution is to keep your right foot on the throttle, hoover your left foot over the brake and continue on your way. I'd say it's obvious to everyone here that you are the one with the limited skills and are an unsafe driver.

More BS presented as fact. How do you know what the training and credentials are of the people that wrote the state driving manuals, written tests, and administer the in car driving tests?
I've asked you for a reference to any credible source of information that says left foot braking and using two feet on an automatic is even acceptable, let alone a superior method. Should be easy, if the facts are as you claim. Link please.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Well, I said I was done with this topic and it has motored on without me. But I think I'll jump back in one more time.
A Google search on "left foot braking reaction times" without the quotes turns up quite a bit of stuff. Much of it mirrors the controversy here. There are many, many threads and forums that deteriorate the way this one has. You've got your LFB folks saying "it reduces reaction time" and your RFB folks saying you LFB folks are crazy, stupid, or reckless. Pick at least one.
Here is a 2006 LA Times article which basically wishy washes the issue:
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/may/17/autos/hy-wheels17
It says that "the time it takes to move the right foot from the accelerator to the brake is about 0.2 second". That is about a car length advantage at 60 mph if the LFB driver is covering the pedal. So it is not nearly 50 feet and is only there if the LFB driver is covering the pedal.
It also says that "General Motors human factors engineer Brian Kulie said the company lays out its pedals so that either the left or right foot can be used for braking, but the design is optimized for one-footed operation"
and that the NHTSA says ""It is an aspect of driver behavior we have never evaluated." and "In California, the Department of Motor Vehicles, which decides who gets licensed, also has no opinion on the matter. "

Actually, Google has failed to turn up any official reference to this as a failure point. The strongest I've found is a NJ driver's guide that says you "should" brake with the right foot. I would think it would say "must" if it was a failure point.
Click and Clack are divided on the issue:
http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/1993/February/11.html
Tom says it is OK for older drivers, Ray says no. I'm starting to qualify as an older driver, but I'm not sure why it is limited to them.

Here is a link to a 1968 Popular Mechanics article where Dan Gurney says LFB is the preferred method.
http://tinyurl.com/DanGurney
It is worth looking just for the blast from the past. A few pages up from the link is an article saying that Detroit automakers are asking for sanctions against Toyota and Nissan because they are importing 100,000 cars a year.
Here's a wild YouTube video showing a rally driver left foot braking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMEqOGejlrw

No, I'm not claiming that applies to street driving. It's just kind of fun. LFB also common on the race track. That's why it was taught to me in my emergency vehicle street driving course. Some race track handling techniques do apply there.
I kicked over this ant hill and am truly surprised by the amount of venom it attracted. I'd appreciate it if any replies to this post avoid the venom. I don't expect anyone to get converted.
It looks to me that LFB was a fad in the mid-60's and has faded away since.
-- Doug
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wrote:

**IF** the driver is "covering the pedal". in an -emergency-,they probably will not be covering the pedal.

LFB is the primary cause of riding the brakes. If a driver has their braking foot on the gas pedal,it cannot be riding the brakes. I often see cars where the brake lights flick on and off when I know the driver isn't braking. They are LFBers. They are a hazard.
One important thing here; IMO,the majority of LFB drivers are NOT trained drivers,they're just poorly trained drivers. The good ones are the exception and not the rule. Thus it's a bad practice.
No offense meant.
Besides,doesn't it make sense to drive the same manner no matter what type of car you're driving? Consistency.
--
Jim Yanik
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wrote:

Cite?
Funny but I NEVER see brake lights flickering like that. Probably not once in a year. I think you are making it up.

Your sentence starting with IMO makes zero sense. Since you are making up the nonsense about all the flickering brake lights and we know from actual experience that there is no actual problem with people riding their brakes there therefore is no problem with people, poorly trained or otherwise, using their left foot.

How nice of you to call everyone who holds an opinion different then yours stupid and then claim you mean no offense. You are quite offensive. No offense meant.

Really? So having some cars with 3 speed manuals, some with 4 speeds, some with 5 speeds, some with 6 speeds and many with different shift patterns for first and reverse must be a HUGE problem since it's NOT consistent from car to car and surely that's going to create major confusion for drivers. And gosh, what about the inconsistency of some cars having the shifter on the steering column and some on teh console. How will the world ever survive with all the inconsistency drivers have to contend with. My my, I'm feeling faint, get the smelling salts, I having the vapors it's all just too too much.
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I see it fairly often. Or worse, a car accelerating away from a light with the brake lights on. My wife hears me mutter "It's a brake pedal, not a foot rest." or "How many miles do you get to the set of pads?". It is even mentioned in the previously cited Car Talk article:
http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/1993/February/11.html
So be nice. He's not making it up.
-- Doug
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Ah,because Ashton doesn't see it,it must not happen....

I don't need to "make up" stuff. I just mention what I observe. that's how I base my opinions,on 40 years of observed behavior. I can't help it if other people are not observant,or have memory problems.
--
Jim Yanik
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wrote:

Thanks for falling into my trap. In the same way, just because YOU can't successfully LFB you think it can't be done, must not happen. See how that works.

Of course he's not. I purposely baited you antiLFBers to show you how silly you are when you claim ANYONE who LFBs is some dangerous driver. The worst that can be said is that there aer some people who LFB who aren't very good at it. Same can be said about RFB, I'm sure plenty of them have lots of accidents that could have been avoided had they learned to LFB.

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Many states will FLUNK YOU if you LFB during a driving test, as well they should. See how that works?
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wrote:

Big deal. Or do you think gvt bureaucrats are ALWAYS correct? I hope I never see you complain about the gvt doing something wrong.
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There are lots of kinds of emergencies. Some are the sudden "Oh, my god" type. Yes, they most likely won't be covering the pedal. There is the "This could get ugly" type and they might.
The flip side is what I tell teenagers when they say they are safer drivers because they've got better reaction times. "If you need reaction time to save yourself, you screwed up some time earlier".

I suspect, but can't verify, that LFB reduces the incidence of unintended acceleration due to driver error. So you pays your money and takes your chances.

I doubt there is any correlation between training and LFB/RFB. Obviously from this discussion, some of the best trained drivers LFB. But the simple fact is nearly all drivers are poorly trained, especially when it comes to car handling.

As folks have mentioned, it is easy to use your feet differently in different contexts. You don't get confused about driving vs. walking vs. flying an airplane or riding a motorcycle. I've always been mildly surprised that there is enough difference in context between driving a stick vs. an automatic that I *never* get confused. I mean never in 40 years of going back and forth. YMMV.
I've found the discussion interesting. At least the civil parts of it. I've learned that the reaction time benefits are less than I've thought. I've decided that if I were running a driving school for new drivers, I'd teach RFB. I've also decided that I am going to continue to LFB my automatics. So if you see a brown '95 Ford Explorer in Dallas, watch out.
-- Doug
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wrote:

then that's not exactly an "emergency",but an expected possibility.

OTOH,reaction time is stil necessary. I see many drivers who lack it. Mine has saved at least two dogs. 8-)

I respectfully disagree.

you brought it up in an earlier post,about you having training.

easy for you to SAY it....

Completely different tasks.Not relevant.

well,good driving,Doug.
--
Jim Yanik
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On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:04:45 -0500, Douglas Johnson

You will notice Colin is driving a front wheel drive standard transmission car on a "closed course". What he is doing is locking the rear wheels to induce oversteer ("hang out the tail") while burning the power through the front brakes. It's got NOTHING to do with stopping, believe me. It is a VERY effective way of tossing a lightweight front drive vehicle through corners on loose surfaces at INCREDIBLE speeds.
Also very effective at wearing out expensive competition braking material - a set of pads is good for MABEE two rallyes - generally they are replaced between events in performance rallying.

It can be usefull in "evasive action" - doing things that under normal conditions would net you a citation or two - - - -.

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On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:04:45 -0500, Douglas Johnson

These thread are always the same. They go like this.
1 - Someone will post a comment about something and mention in passing that they LFB and make no other claim or say whether it's good or bad.
2 - someone else will feel compelled to say that the first poster is incredibly stupid for using their left foot and are endangering everyone else on the road blah blah blah.
3 - the original poster or someone else will say that there is not a thing wrong with LFB and present reasons why they feel it's as good or better.
2 - the anti-LFB faction will come unglued and start attacking the people who choose to LFB.
It's as predictable as the rising sun.
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and the LFB will ignore all the reasons _not_ to do it.
Harry K
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