About Home Inspectors...(a rant)

[Roger Shoaf]

What is the problem with knob and tube wiring? Seems to me that stuff should last for ever.

[Matt]

Actually, I read somewhere recently that K & T will pretty much last forever; that is if left alone and not hacked into; and any new circuits are run back to the main.

The article talked about how in the days of K & T, electricians were still VERY paranoid about electricity, and went to great pains to make sure that the installation was done as close to perfectly as possible.

Which I tend to believe. My brother owned a house built in the K & T days for many years, which for whatever reason was in pristine condition and had managed to make it through the decades without a single renovation. I was pretty young at the time, this would have been about 1978 or so, but I do remember going down in the basement and marveling at the wiring and the care put into installing it. I mean it looked like they used a laser to line up all the insulators; when the wires took a turn I recall that they were all very crisp 45's, again with the insulators placed exactly in line with one another, with each wire exactly the same distance from it's neighbor; all throughout the length of the house. It actually looked like a giant living piece of art... to me anyway.

[newsgroups01REMOVEME]

It seems it would if people wouldn't mess with it. Originally it was setup for just general lighting, then today's boob-brother-in-law-electrician-wanna-be run receptacles off of it to give power to kids video games and tv.

That's when all heck breaks out.

imho,

tom @

[frank-in-toronto]

say whatever you like, insurance companys (at least in ontario) hate it. if you want home insurance, you have to replace it. ...thehick

[Duane Bozarth]

Undisturbed, it ...but most wire used at the time had fiber insulation or natural rubber compounds that will have detiorated over the years...in our old barn and house, it has just fallen off the wires in places leaving bare wire....(no longer used, just some is left abandoned in place)

[John Willis]

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:28:35 -0600, John Willis scribbled this interesting note:

Yesterday we went and repaired that leaky roof the home inspector passed. Without exception that was the worst valley installation I've ever seen in over 25 years of doing this kind of work. I stand by my earlier comments about the installers as well as that inspector. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior. The installers of the roof had no business being there and neither did the home inspector. Splitting hairs about how the home inspector was just trying to keep a realtor happy by not wrecking a deal is just rationalization and making excuses for attitudes and behaviors that have no excuse.

As for our repair, I guarantee the valley will not leak. I don't guarantee the rest of the roof at all and in fact I know that there will be other leaks show up, I just don't know where yet. The only way to repair an installation this bad is to tear it all off and start fresh. Fortunately we get big hail storms through here every few years-hence our high home insurance rates!:~(

Thanks for the comments regarding the lack of integrity of many home inspectors. Failing to do a job the way it ought to be done when someone is paying you their hard earned money is no different than stealing. If the best of your ability isn't good enough then you (this particular home inspector, I mean) need to find another line of work.

-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

[Duane Bozarth]

John Willis wrote: ...

...

Don't think anybody was making an excuse or justifying incompetence (at least I certainly wasn't)--just pointing out the conflict of interest in utilizing any one who is, in fact, representing the seller (whether directly or not). That some are more ethical and competent than others is, of course, obvious.

Anyway, glad that the problem has been addressed by someone who (apparently) is both...

[forrest]

"Roger Shoaf" wrote

as others note, it is ok if never altered, but in this case a) it had been obviously hacked into in numerous places b) failing insulation had left exposed bare wire in numerous places c) we could not find an insurance company that would cover us with K&T

since we could not afford to have the work done, i paid an electrician to come in and put in a new 200 amp service and then rewired the whole house from scratch myself. despite never having done electrical work, i passed both inspections on the first try with no corrections. i also managed to do the whole thing without ever getting an electrical shock :-O

(this is why i like DIY - i learned a huge amount, saved a lot of money, was able to get it done exactly the way i want it and developed a knowledege base that makes me much more confident in future projects.)

[John Willis]

Thanks for the understanding. Usually I can just let these kinds of things go, but when the home owner said she had it inspected and nothing at all was said about the roof, it just went against the grain.

When tearing out the valley, on the second shingle from the top on the first side I was removing, I found no fewer than forty 1 1/2" Paslode staples shot through a GAF Timberline shingle that was less than two feet long. I am not making this up. And the rest of the valley only got worse...

-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

[Duane Bozarth]

...

Well, let me tell you about what I found on the roof here Dad paid untold gazillions on... :)

Wood shingle, no starter row on two sides w/ open deck roof. Holes as wide as 1/2" by 1" direct to the soffet underneath...

Use of metal drip edge w/ wood shingle on roof where a bed mould was used so that the shingle end/side overhangs for drip edge and leaves a really nice detail. The drip edge was put on that mould, the shingle left short -- resulting in capillary action pulling the water under the shingle, over and behind the drip edge and down the fascia behind the bed mould. Net result--paint failure in less than two years of the brand new paint job as well.

Since the roof is