AAA: E15 could really fark up your car, void warranties

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wrote:

damn those oil company execs and munitions makers
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that would probably be news to florida
of course, if memory serves, there are other crops with higher yield per acre is better than corn: sunchokes and hemp come to mind
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Heck they of all people would know that it won't support cane production ON THE SCALE required.

Interesting chart of yields per acre and net energy. http://grist.org/article/biofuel-some-numbers /
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wrote:

So you think that Florida is capable of producing sugar cane on the scale required to supply the motor vehicle fuel needs of the U.S., or even a significant fraction thereof?
Dream on.
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On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 14:51:58 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
really fark up your car, void warranties:

Looks like there is plenty of room for expansion: <http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/sugar-sweeteners/background.aspx#production
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I'll let the post from CRNG address that issue, but there's no reason sugar cane couldn't be expanded to other areas and I'll bet it would grow nicely in parts of Mexico...and we do have the ability to use Mexican ethanol
Then again, there is the sugar beet, sunchoke and hemp for ethanol, all of which I believe are also energy positive
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wrote:

Last I checked, Mexico wasn't part of the US, so whether cane will grow in Mexico is irrelevant to the question of whether it can be grown in the US.
I repeat: the climate in the US is inhospitable to growing sugar cane on the scale required to produce sufficient ethanol fuel.

Certainly much of the arable land in the US is hospitable to growing sugar beets -- but we were talking about cane, remember?
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but we do trade with Mexico. In fact some of that corn that is turned into ethanol and not tortillas could have been being shipped to Mexico

why be a piker: the climate in the US is inhospitable to growing many foods on the scale to support Americans year round

actually we were talking about ethanol, remember. if not just look at the subject line
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wrote:

We weren't talking about growing sugar cane in Mexico. You disagreed with me when I said that it wouldn't work to try to grow it in the US.

Fortunately for the US, that isn't true. We're able to supply our own needs well enough that the Federal government pays farmers to *not* grow food...

Not correct. You and I were talking about producing ethanol specifically from sugar cane -- starting when I said that it wasn't feasible for the US to do as Brazil is doing, because our climate won't support sugar cane growth on the necessary scale.
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We are already growing it in the US, of course I do understand that you mean it wouldn't work in the sense of growing enough. Fine, so we'll grow more sugar beets to make sugar with, we'll use sugar cane to make ethanol to replace corn based and then the corn can be used to the worlds malnourished

Sure, but since there are some places that like to have tomatoes, strawberries, avocados, most fresh fruit and lots of other veggies year round, even though they aren't necessary for survival, we import them. We can import ethanol from Brazil

Okay, but I was also talking about plants that could produce ethanol energy positive, so while I wouldn't mind seeing most of florida and louisiana and whoever else grows it turned into a big sugar cane plantation, we'll just have to use sugar beets, sunchokes, hemp and whatever else works until we can grow algae that feeds on oil spills and can then be converted to ethanol
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Of course the main reason we don't use cane or beets is price supports from the Government (which were continued by the farm bill). Sugar sells for about 18 cents a pound while ethanol is at around 10 cents per pound (of feedstock).
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but don't price supports amount to "entitlements"
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Yep, actually even more so than SS. I find it interesting that they fully fund things like this while not even close to funding SS. And that is a product of both parties over generations of politicians
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maybe they'll just fund SS with beets
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On 12/3/2012 6:13 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:

Kurt, are you familiar with switchgrass? It is a great source of plant material that can be turned into ethanol and it needs no special care to flourish. ^_^
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=grass-makes-better-ethanol-than-corn
http://tinyurl.com/om89r6
TDD
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The Daring Dufas wrote:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=grass-makes-better-ethanol-than-corn
Perhaps, but, as of today, there is no commercially feasible way to turn switchgrass into ethanol.
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aw, that's the one I kept thinking of but forgetting. Thanks
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Minor nit, since very little sugar cane ethanol is available in the US, which is what we were talking about. To sorta get this back on track, I have seen nothing to indicate that ethanol from sugar cane does any less damage to the vehicles. Anybody?>
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I agree. Everything I've seen indicates it's the ethanol itself that is the problem, not some contamination particular to the way it's produced. C2H6O is C2H6O.
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then one would think that there would be a downward spiral of ethanol use in Brazil
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