AAA auto club

[Don Y]

It's getting so that you won't have a choice. OTA broadcasts require a converter box if you want to stick with a "legacy" set. These are increasingly hard to find (they aren't designed well -- I've repaired probably a dozen for our home alone! They were an "interim measure")

CATV requires a converter box -- another "closed" system that can tattle on you however the cable company deems appropriate (it can do the same sorts of things that I'm predicting smart TV;s will be doing).

Ditto for DishTV, etc.

Streaming services can install proprietary software and similarly impose their data collection policies on you -- forcing you to interface with it as *they* deem appropriate.

I use a media tank approach as a fallback for the DTV converter boxes (I'm down to my last pair of those and have no desire to repair them, again). But, this is out of the reach of most users -- it's far from "turnkey". Plus, many of the glitsy features that you might want require an internet connection; so, you've explicitly opened the door to intrusive behaviors!

(it's not possible to design a packet filter that blocks all "undesired" traffic -- unless you literally inspect the packets with your own eyes AND are aware of all the various tunneling schemes that are relatively easy to use *through* firewalls; couple that with the concept of essentially having installed a "plug" in your home and you've given them a potential beachhead. I.e., unless its ALL FOSS *and* you examine and build all the sources by hand, you're at risk)

[Roger Blake]

I have spares, though so far I haven't had much trouble once I ditched the garbage DTVPal boxes. Also, not all new sets are of th "Smart" type. Even if saddled with one of those, don't connect it to the internet and it can't send info anywhere.

No cable TV or satellite here, just an antenna on the roof.

I'm not interested in any of those features.

[Don Y]

There is pressure on OTA broadcasters to forfeit their bandwidth for other uses. I suspect in another generation much of it (OTA TV) will be seen as a waste of that bandwidth.

Then, there are those areas where you can't reliably acquire OTA broadcasts (we have a short line of site to the broadcast antennae for most of the local broadcasters. Yet, frequently encounter problems with reception)

TV listings? Watch the debates on Fox/CNN, etc.? Internet radio?

I have a neighbor who uses her TV as a radio -- no picture, just sound.

[Sam E]

[snip]

Malware can be hardware too. You need to design and make your own chips, using raw materials you provide.

[Steve Stone]

A couple of years form now the current USA ATSC digital OTA signals will be replaced with a new ATSC standard, making all current ATSC tuners obsolete.

[Don Y]

Thanks for this! I doubt my last two DTV converters (we don't own a TV that has an ATSC tuner *inside*) will last to that point! But, I surely will delay adding more "IP tuners" to my collection until/unless there are assurances from the tuner vendor that a firmware upgrade will address this sort of thing!

[Don Y]

Technically, malware is "software" (algorithms). Though, where it resides in the software hierarchy can vary. E.g., when part of *firmware*, it can be harder to remove (the firmware has to be updateable, by design, and the vendor has to take the effort to produce new firmware that preserves the intended function while removing the actual "infestation".

There;s been considerable talk of installing malware in computer

*components* at the firmware level. By way of example, the computer that resides *in* every disk drive (that makes the disk drive operate *as* a disk drive) has firmware that can be upgraded (which also means "infected"). Your mouse, keyboard, CD/DVD drive all have firmware (though probably only the optical drive is updateable/infectable).

The "chip" on your motherboard that implements the network connection has firmware that controls its operation. Likewise, the "chip" that drives your display output.

Most of these are so specific in nature that they would be hard to universally "infect". And, would require intimate knowledge of the associated operating system in order for their "infection" to be able to do anything "useful" (from the attackers' point of view). I.e., you could deliberately scramble a disk's contents by infecting its controller firmware; or, render the contents inaccessible. But, you'd be hard pressed to cause the computer to do something "specific" that would buy you anything.

[A notable exception would be to have the controller notice when the boot record was being fetched and corrupt that record to install a rootkit, effectively. But, if you aren't running the OS that the rootkit was designed to exploit, this would fall apart. A smart infection would recognize this fact and *hide* -- soas not to tip off the computing community of its existence!]

[Rocky]

But we'll all get two free ObamaTuners, right?

[Roger Blake]

Probably not in my lifetime. If it came down to it I can live without TV.

I don't have too many problems, though sometimes have to fine-tune the antenna position using the rotator. Main problem with the digitial TV system is it does not degrade gracefully - it either works or it doesn't.

Nope. Not interested.

Interesting - I've found that with a weak signal the sound is the first to go.

[Don Y]

Our TV use is largely local news and DVD viewing. I can't think of a "TV show" that airs, nowadays, that I'd "make time" (even time-shifted) to watch. Not sure how that would change if we had a CATV feed; but I'm *sure* we'd not be spending all that money each month just in case wed want to sit and rot our brains! Life has far more interesting things to offer than TV!

We catch-up with the broadcast TV shows that others watch "now" (on cable or OTA) by borrowing those same shows from the local library when they are released on DVD's. Often, years after they've aired! (e.g., John from Cincinnati). This also lets us watch shows that we particularly enjoyed multiple times. (We've watched SOAP perhaps 4 or 5 times; ditto with Coupling, Firefly, etc.)

A consequence of this is we don't have to "wait" for the next expisode to be broadcast at *their* convenience; it's on one of the DVD's, in the package, waiting to be viewed at *our* convenience!

SWMBO has just started watching Downton Abbey. She is hoping to finish catching up on the first *5* seasons before the 6th (final) season airs in January.

Yup. I'd prefer a "snowy" picture to a "choppy" one, any day! For us, OTA NTSC was markedly more reliable than ATSC (due to local geography).

I suspect less and less "premium" content will be available OTA. Advertisers and vendors have quickly learned that they have a tighter "lock" on your eyes with streaming content! Another consequence of the Negroponte "flip".

We "listened" to the latest debate on AM radio. I'm sure the lack of visuals didn't make a difference (there was nothing of substance said, regardless!)

She has cable. Just uses the TV as a "radio" (I guess there are some "stations" that effectively broadcast just music?)

[Don Y]

Hopefully they'll be better than the BushTuners that we had to PAY FOR!

[Steve Stone]

Not all the external ATSC tuners were created equal.

Most were only good for NTSC channel 3/4 output or composite. I have a Channel Master tuner with S-Video output and a Samsung H250F model that does 720P HDMI. The Samsung was not part of the BushTuner $40 debit card deal and seems to be better at decoding marginal signals.

Steve

[Steve Stone]

Correction, The Samsung does up to 1080I and component. I was surprised to see the price of used ones on eBay.

[Don Y]

Of course not! It was a "let the market solve this problem" approach, not a legislated/regulated one!

ISTR the $40 deal was just a "credit" that could be applied to any? I recall paying $6-8 for my first two (and the limit -- credits -- was "just two").

Our problem lies with a tree in the line-of-sight between our antenna location and the cluster of antennae on the mountain above us. Depending on the way the wind is blowing and whether or not it is raining, we may lose a significant number of stations. Or not.

I now use a dual IP tuner so I can, potentially, watch (at most) two shows and record (at most) two other shows simultaneously from one "box". I'll wait until your previously mentioned "news" comes to pass before upgrading this box.

OTOH, it's real value is in the DVR capability -- so we can record shows that are on at "inopportune" times of day and watch them "wherever/whenever" we choose (instead of being forced to watch them on a particular "attached" TV). SWMBO has already had me schedule the Downton Abbey season 6 episodes for recording -- so she won't have to watch them at the broadcaster's convenience!

[gfretwell]

That is the main problem with digital TV, reception is binary. It either works or it doesn't. There is nothing in between. When the picture breaks up, the sound goes too.

[gfretwell]

Nixon would disagree with that statement. It was the visuals that won the debate for JFK. What he said did not carry the day.

[Roger Blake]

Pretty much the same here, though there are also now a number of stations that show old TV shows and movies that we'll watch.

None of it is critical really, aside maybe from seeing news that might be of importance. While there are things I do enjoy in the end I just don't place a very high value on entertainment.

Yep, you're playing my tune! I also have a large library of Beta and VHS tapes, CED "needlevision" discs, laserdiscs, and DVDs. Even without any external input there is more stuff here than I would be able to watch in my remaining lifespan.

The worst part is the way the audio cuts out immediately. With the old analog system the sound would hang in until the end and you could follow what was going on even if the picture was fading in and out.

[gfretwell]

I use TV as a radio quite a bit. I have a set of RF headphones and I like to crank up a Charley Rose or one of the Ken Burns shows when I am working around the house. Most of those documentaries are just tired old slides and B roll clips we have seen hundreds of times so the real content is in the script. Some are embarrassingly out of context. How many times have we seen the clip of the German soldier walking along the side of the road with the MP44 and it was supposed to be the invasion of France or Russia?

[gfretwell]

I didn't pay for the 2 I got. They were $39.95 and the coupons were $40 (you got 2).

[gfretwell]

The absolute worst is the one Dish sells you for OTA broadcasts in their sat box., I ended up having to put in a deep fringe antenna to make it halfway reliable and the tuner in my TV will get a usable signal with a coat hanger. The only reason I use it is for the DVR in the sat box.