A sad tale of two wrecked newsgroups

[LdB]

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were well established before I found them.

The usernet has always been a favorite hiding place for internet kooks and trolls. They have almost completely overwhelmed rec.boats and are now slowly destroying rec.boats.cruising.

In both rec.boat groups it was simply a matter of the troublemaker(s) posting off topic subjects of a political and personal nature that many of the less restrained members could not resist responding to. The resulting flame wars have driven off most of the serious users so that now both groups are little more than a bunch of kooks doing everything possible to annoy each other.

One of the biggest Off Topic troublemakers in the rec.boats group goes by the names Harry, Harry Krause, HK and probably a few others. He also likes to spoof the id's of others to stir up trouble when people don't respond to his posts or trolls, which is what it is all about in his case.

Anybody on this group notice our Harry's. We seem to have a few. Some of our Harry's post normally. Some of our Harry's start threads like this:

Interesting UK hand gun link

Obama, dictator of America.

The end of the world is nigh!

Take a look at the state of those other newsgroups before you decide to respond to this one.

If you are a Harry and consider yourself a serious user of this group I apologize for dragging you into the thread. If you are the Harry that posts off topic would you please explain why you find it necessary to do so. You do know there are many political newsgroups that would welcome those posts?

For the rest of the home repair users, you have now seen what the trolls can do to newsgroups. You can continue on as usual or you can possibly think first before responding to a troll. Google Internet Trolls if you need a little more convincing that there could be a problem.

To the Harry troll

I can understand why you people would go after the rec.boats group. In short they deserve you but that's another story. Why would you want to come after this group? They're just a bunch of ordinary people from all walks of life. They mean no harm to anyone. They're just looking for simple homeowners advice or are willing to help others with some of the same. I really can't understand why you or others like you would get any enjoyment out of attacking a group like this?

LdB

[hibb]

Guilty as charged as far as replying to some of those threads. I've seen posters in other groups make the case against off topic posts but you did a better job arguing your case than most. Plus the posts in other groups seem more like people just bitching about off topic posts but seldom or never post on topic threads themselves.

I can't promise anything but I will keep this thread in mind when I am tempted to post in the off topic threads in this NG in the future.

David

[Smarty]

Add to your list David Nebenzahl, another troll who posts his off-topic political crap, most recently regarding the blocking of ship unloading of an Israeli ship in California.

I detest the lack of respect he shows in posting such crap on as home repair forum. Clearly he has no respect for the other people who frequent this forum seeking home repair information.

[Steve B]

Guilty as charged as far as replying to some of those threads. I've seen posters in other groups make the case against off topic posts but you did a better job arguing your case than most. Plus the posts in other groups seem more like people just bitching about off topic posts but seldom or never post on topic threads themselves.

I can't promise anything but I will keep this thread in mind when I am tempted to post in the off topic threads in this NG in the future.

David

Having seen what hibb speaks of in rec.boats, I agree. Yet, it does take two people to argue. Trolls only stay where they are fed. If they don't get the attention they crave, they will be off to another group. Yes, I comment on off topic stuff, but just to a brief point. After that, it becomes an adolescent namecalling flame war that really then doesn't even have anything to do with the original off topic political rant. It's just up to everyone if they want to get into it with the trolls. And a lot of good people who can offer good ON topic advice are then killfiled with the political troll, and then a valuable poster is lost, even if they can't control themselves enough to decide who they want to talk to, and not.

Usenet is losing its value. I scroll through, and if I see someone who is posting a lot about things political, I just killfile them. There are a few here who post a lot about things political, yet who do post about home repair topics. I just avoid the threads that are OT. Servers and ISPs are letting newsgroups go for just the reasons mentioned here, that is what originally started as a help column turned into a crabfest, and they don't want to dedicate the time and machinery needed to pass along people like HK et al. They'd rather do anything that generates advertising or revenue. So, it is going to be interesting to see where Usenet goes from here.

It has gotten so bad that now there is a proliferation of sites where if you have a question or a problem, for XX bucks, they will get and give you the answer. And these are answers that used to be, or need to be, free.

It's sad these little people have nothing better to do in their lives.

Steve

visit my blog at

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

[Metspitzer]

The solution has always been kill filters.

[notbob]

....and common sense, which seems to becoming less common at an ever increasing pace.

nb

[Harlan Messinger]

Kill filters have never been a solution past a certain point, when people first arriving for legitimate purposes see a newsgroup that's 95% garbage and turn around on their heels, leaving the legitimate usership of the newsgroup a closed one that dwindles through natural attrition until it is no more.

[Steve B]

No, the solution is to never respond to them. Killfiling them makes that easier, as you don't see them, but still, you may see a post from someone you don't have killfiled, and they post the KF'd person.

The best thing is to remember that it takes two people to have a conversation, and when one of them stops talking, the conversation stops, too.

I think that the type of people who are trolls and attention getters here are the kind that used to pester the shit out of animals as a child, and now have a new medium. Sad sad people with no real lives.

HTH

Steve

visit my blog at

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

[DerbyDad03]

Isn't this just a bit OT for a Home Repair newsgroup? ;-)

[Ron]

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS group...especially without marking it OT.

[Steve B]

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS group...especially without marking it OT.

reply: (stamping feet and screaming) IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!

And maybe you could, do the same thing, too? Ever thought of that? Hmmmmmmmm?

Steve

[Ron]

I didn't start the thread, genius.

[Steve B]

I didn't start the thread, genius.

No, you're just a guppy puppy follower .................

[David Nebenzahl]

On 6/21/2010 12:24 PM Smarty spake thus:

Oh, bullshit.

All these posts were preceded by "OT", something no self-respecting troll would ever do. And I also post plenty of on-topic home repair stuff. So quitcherbellyachin'.

I can't speak for those other groups the OP mentioned, but it seems to me that this group is very much alive and well so far as the on-topic exchange of information goes, so it all sounds a bit like the usual Chicken Little stuff we hear around here.

The biggest threat to usenet is actually the loss of service from large ISPs, much more significant than any trolling that might go on.

[The Daring Dufas]

I reserve a killfile for only the most horribly obnoxious and foul posters. I haven't really come across anyone like that in this group. A thread can easily be killed by pressing K in my newsreader which is Thunderbird and I will do that when some idiot decides to advertise gold watches, etc. Most OT threads will eventually fade unless it's kept going by jousting trolls. It's easier to kill a thread without a second thought than to configure a killfile. Perhaps more folks should try that instead.

TDD

[The Daring Dufas]

Hey Steve, sniff, trolls need love too. 8-)

TDD

[hibb]

Yeah but you are a Dufas so what do you know.

[trader4]

I'd say YOU are the BS artist. Starting political posts in a home repair group isn't OK, just because you want to spread your anti Israel agenda or whatever else bugs you at the moment. Like others here, I've been drawn into these too, but I have never started one. And the pace is accelerating.

The concerns about newsgroups being destroyed by OT posts and trolls is vaild. I've seen it happen and the trend is starting here as well.

[The Daring Dufas]

"Dufas" is a proper name you big silly. Just like "Pennington" or "Aceveds".

TDD

[Ivan]

It's a pity, in a way, that responding to OT topics is so destructive. Yes, there are groups where these political postings would be welcome, but not many neutral ones (AFAIK) where there's a free exchange of views. Too many political chatrooms and such have a definite political slant: posting to them with a different point of view invites flaming; posting with the same slant is not just preaching to the choir but the beginning of a transformation from discussion group to echo chamber, the mindless parroting of slogans and sound bites, and demonization of the opposition.