On Wed, 30 May 2012 12:29:04 -0400, email@example.com wrote:
No, All you have to do is look at the smart meter.. The factory installed
plain as day.. (filled in circles next to each install option, outlined by
almost in exact center of meter.)
Now is that so hard.. Or are you legally blind?
That refers to the options in the communication module. You still need
the switching hardware. That is not going to fit in that meter.
How do you think they are switching 200 amps? What kind of device?
On Thu, 31 May 2012 00:54:29 -0400, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
It's probably a latching relay of some sort.
Again, documented features of the i-210+... .
Look up the term "service switch"..
With the addition of the fully rated 200 amp service switch, the meter is
pre-payment metering without all the historical cost associated with card
readers or other
legacy pre-payment technology. Load limiting and emergency conservation modes
meter apart when working in conjunction with a demand response program. Having
capability to be remotely configured, as well as being firmware upgradeable,
serves today’s needs, as well as tomorrow’s evolving requirements."
Page 8. (I-210+)
Factory integrated Service Switch Capability
- Soft Switch Functions
- AMR Communications (AMR Interface formats include
SPI Format-1 data, SPI Format-2 Data
- Simple Voltag Event monitoring in addition to RMS
voltage display "
On Page 9 of the PDF under the table titled "Residential Meter Selector"
Look at the middle column for "I-210+ Basic Energy",
Go down to Items
10(Service switch) and
Both are listed as "Factory installed option for I-210+"..
From my conversations with GE'e engineer, some of the ordering options for the
residential meters are:
O = AMR,
V2 = Simple Voltage event monitor,
F2 = Demand limit,
J2 = Emergency Load reduction(same leg of 110V connected to both sides, no"0v
U2 = Remote disconnect & Prepaid disconnect.
Now go outside and look at GE I-210+ smart meter installed on the side of your
you have one). Write down the extra options installed, just to the right of
inside a rectangle box outline (Very close to the exact center of the meter
the key phrase here is "With the addition of the fully rated 200 amp
that seems to indicate additional hardware is necessary for that "load
management" function,and that that additional equipment(relay) would be
located in the "energy managment system" he mentioned.
IOW,it would appear that the I-210+ can send a signal to an external relay
to do that management,but cannot switch the load itself internally.
I agree, I would certainly like to see a relay that can do all of this
at 200 amps and fit inside that meter along with the meter hardware
itself and the RF module.
The idea that this might be a solid state device is even more
ludicrous. My meter runs cool to the touch at a 70-80a load. No solid
state device can do that.
On Thu, 31 May 2012 13:55:35 -0400, email@example.com wrote:
scroll down to bottom of page... observe the pics of a 200 amp smart meter
Looks like some sort of latching relay..
I think what the guy is trying to determine is whether the I-210+ meter
actually has it's own internal switching ability to perform that "load
management",or if it must rely on some external relay built into that
"energy management system".
Up here they are not GE. We have Sensus iSA2 meters with FlexNet
530X communication. Also known as the i-con a. It is a bi-directional
meter with nocut-off or disconnect capability. The iSA3 is required
for remote disconnect.
Not quite. Consider this:
Household A and Household B both use 1000 Kwh per month. 45% of house
A's usage happens during peak hours (when electricity is more expensive
for the utility to purchase). But 35% of house B's usage happens during
peak hours. But the utility doesn't know this -> because both houses
have conventional "dumb" meters that only record total use.
The utility has to come up with a blended (and equal) rate to charge
these customers. Because the meters recorded the same usage, both A and
B will get the same bill at the end of the month. But because house B
shifted some of their usage to lower-cost hours, house A benefits from
this by seeing a slightly lower bill because of the conservation or
life-style efforts performed by household B.
House B can't *fully* realize or *exclusively benefit* from their own
efforts to time-shift their energy usage. Only a smart-meter on both
houses can make that happen. This is how smart meters make electricity
billing more "equitable" between customers.
It's a similar situation in retail commerce. Credit-card use costs
merchants money. So merchants increase prices to cover this cost. When
a customer pays for something in cash, he's unknowingly subsidizing the
merchant's credit-card operating expenses - and credit-card users
realize a small benefit because of this.
Now, all that said, the real question is -> what is the possible
magnitude of this imbalance or inequity between house A and house B, and
does it warrant the huge outlay on the part of the utility for new,
expensive meters, network infrastructure and billing systems?
Remember, it's not a question about whether or not house B would benefit
if they used less TOTAL electricity per month compared to house A ->
because even using old dumb metering B would see a reduction in their
bill compared to A in that situation.
The real issue is -> how large a difference _can_there_be_ in the
peak-use between A and B as expressed as a PERCENTAGE of their total
monthly use, and what does that difference work out to be in terms of
actual dollars and cents.
It turns out that these differences are SMALL when we are talking about
individual residential customers, and do not warrant the huge
infrastructure costs associated with measuring / billing them.
And also consider this: Over time, as more and more customers change
their usage habbits and time-shift their usage, then you have a
situation where the gap narrows and the usage patterns are more equal
between homes, rendering the usefulness of time-of-use metering
I've heard the same argument about "equitable distribution of costs" to
argue for everyone having a toll booth at the end of their driveway.
That's exactly what they want to do: spread out the peak load.
Although it's hard to convince people to run A/C only at night, it
might be possible to move uses like clothes washing and drying, hot
water, and perhaps some cooking.
If you had rolling blackouts in your area at any time during the
past few years not caused by catastrophic problems like tornadoes,
floods, and hurricanes (these don't usually cause *rolling* blackouts
unless one hit some generators), you need more generating capacity
in your area. That seems to happen fairly often during really hot days
in summer and occasionally during really cold evenings in winter.
It doesn't matter WHY they need more generating capacity, they still
need it. And smart meters were being planned long before Obama was
elected. Rolling blackouts are not new with Obama, either.
firstname.lastname@example.org (Gordon Burditt) wrote in
that STILL doesn't make it "equitable",or "more equal".that's just
Newspeak. a SNOW JOB for the naive and gullible.
that is due more to bad planning and local opposition to electric plants
than anything else.(the "green movemnt,the ecocommunists)
BUT,it's -fact- that Comrade Obama's EPA rules are shuttng down coal fired
plants and reducing capacity.He has a goal.
"once is accidental,twice is coincidence,three times is enemy action."
Comrade Obama blocked nuclear power by closing Yucca Mountain,is going
after coal via EPA,has blocked Gulf and ANWR oil drilling,and is now going
after fracking,doing everything possible to block US oil production. He
killed the Keystone XL pipeline. Coal,oil,and nuclear is over 70% of US
See a pattern here? there's a concerted effort by Comrade Obama to reduce
US energy supplies,which DIRECTLY diminishes the US economy.
It's all part of his efforts to weaken the US economically,politically,and
if we didn't have a FEDGOV intent on blocking US energy sources,we would
not need "smart meters".
ISTR that the energy Dept. was created to IMPROVE US energy supplies,not
No- it is strictly supply and demand pricing. By charging more when
more power is used, and less when less is used, the actual cost of
generating capacity is more equally spread across the units of power
consumed. To have the CAPACITY to supply more power at peak times
means building more CAPACITY, which is wasted when the demand is low.
Much more sensible to equalize demand so unused capacity is used, and
no extra capacity needs to be built.
Remember, AC power cannot be stored for later use, andfiring up and
shutting off generator capacity is NOT simple, or cheap.
On Sat, 26 May 2012 10:12:11 -0500, email@example.com (Gordon
No, smart METERS cannot do that.
A smart METER cannot selectively shut off, or shed, loads. A smart
"center" can (load center - or service panel)
As we now do with the 3 level charging - run the heavy, optional stuff
in the low charge "night" period.
Not if every home does the same thing. It can ammount to several large
power stations not needing to be built.
At the cost of significant investment in technology - so no, I have
to disagree that it is "the REAL" reason. Remote reading could be
added to a standard meter, or "customer read" with quarterly or
by-annual "agent read" to verify honesty can also be used - and have
been in several areas.
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