a problem with electric meters?

I agree, I would certainly like to see a relay that can do all of this at 200 amps and fit inside that meter along with the meter hardware itself and the RF module. The idea that this might be a solid state device is even more ludicrous. My meter runs cool to the touch at a 70-80a load. No solid state device can do that.

Reply to
gfretwell
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You could what? Exceed the the service cable rating by putting 400 amps through a conductor rated for 200? This would not even pass code, ie an implementation where the meter has the capability to overload the conductors. If it was to be implemented it would require changing the service conductors to ones rated 400 amps. How much you think that would cost?

Reply to
trader4

" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

It's hidden under the "Demand side Management, remote prepayment, and controlled outage restoration" as part of the optional "service switch function".

As for the actual ordering options..

F2 = Demand limit, J2 = Emergency Load reduction(same leg of 110V connected to both sides, no=220v appliance operation.)

It's been a while since I talked to GE.. (I need to dig up my notes.)

Demand limit kicks in once customer reaches some sort of programmed threshold(10kW or KWh consumed) and shuts off the 220v appliances (for some period of time).

Emergency load reduction, similar stuff.

As for safety during while the load reduction kicked in. (It would be trivial programming effort to detect an 110v overload condition and disconnect both legs from service.).

Reply to
T. Keating

IMHO you are confusing cyclic power flow reversal that is produced by every inductor and capacitor with net power reversal that might result from photovoltaic installations. And the meter likely can sense if it is installed upside down.

It is inconceivable that the meter does not register cyclic reversal caused by inductors and capacitors. The net power flow is always toward the load, and unless there is a lot of inductive load is likely toward the load at any instant. You are saying the watt-hour meter does not measure routine watt-hours.

Filter circuit? I would be real surprised if the new meters don't sample voltage and current, multiply, and integrate.

Reply to
bud--

" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

Yes that might work. The AHJ would probably have to sign off on doing it.

IF the meter can connect both legs to one side, and IF that power switching capability is in the meter or added, and IF such switching is allowed my guess is that it is an alternative to rolling blackouts if power use exceeds supply. Relatively short 220V interruptions might work.

Reply to
bud--

On 5/31/2012 2:45 PM, bud-- wrote: ...

There's no chance it's anything else but fully digital--think how little it takes to do audio these days and they're sampling at probably somewhere in the 3-500 Hz range which is 10X under audio...

On the net metering idea, GE datasheet indicates it is a factory option and FPL has a request form for customers to fill out to request a net metering installation so there's all that seems to be needed.

And indeed, the meter has tampering detection built in; I'm quite certain that will include something as basic as upside down installation altho in high likelihood that is taken care of by orientation-specific mounting that only allows one direction.

Reply to
dpb

yup...

Here is a first hand story, different make and model but the I-210+ would have the same problem..

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In this case a new homeowner purchased a house that had a grid tie PV installation and the power co's new smart meter was charging her for every watt hour the PV system put back into the grid.

The default configuration of the I-210+ is to add together both power received and power delivered and report that as (register 1) total energy consumed.. See page 9 line item

6, center column(I-210+) for more info..

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Any electronic measuring device is going to need a filter, otherwise rf nosie spikes(motor brushes, poorly designed switching power supplys, arcing, etc) can/will be incorrectly sampled and result in gross errors.

Reply to
T. Keating

T. Keating wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

You misread/misunderstood if you think I was calling you a liar. I did nothing of the sort.

seems you're a tad ovesensitive.

Reply to
Jim Yanik

But the story below is exactly what Bud is talking about. I think the meters do correctly measure reactive power. As Bud said, with any realistic load the power is always going to be flowing into the home. The case in the story is that the meter does not register power when the net flow is going back into the grid, ie the solar cells are producing more power than the house is using. The reactive thing is an instantaneous change in the net flow going into the house. Like Bud, I believe the meters would have to measure that. The other is when power is constantly flowing into the grid from the solar cells producing more power than the house uses. That I can see the meter not measuring unless it is properly set up.

have the same

installation and

V system put back

eived and power

page 9 line item

osie spikes(motor

l be incorrectly

Reply to
trader4

On 5/31/2012 4:43 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: ...

system put back

received and power

9 line item

As the brochure says the GE meter has four possible configurations that are factory configured. FPL has a request form for its customers to fill out if they have reason to request a net usage meter and then they will install it. Problem solved.

I'd be quite comfortable in betting that the utility of the lady in question above has a similar way to handle the problem.

Reply to
dpb

" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

You did not understand what I said. I sait it QWAS POSSIBLE it would overload the conductors, but UNLIKELY as MOST heavy loads are

220 volt loads. The drier, the oven, the stovetop, the Air Conditioning, all permanently installed electric heat, the water heater - are pretty well ALL 240 volt loads - so the chance that the feed cables would - or even COULD be overloaded is rather remote at best.
Reply to
clare

Don't know about GE, but the Sensus iSA2 does.

Reply to
clare

In this day and age there's zero chance it isn't anything else.

As for filtering, there are whole series of parts available for anti-aliasing...a typical app note on why/how...

One can be sure GE has implemented the function one way or another--either w/ a custom part or by integrating an off-the-shelf production part.

--

Reply to
dpb

he transformer

Is that how they design electrical systems and pass inspection in Canada? You choose service conductors not based on the load, breaker, etc. but on the probability that the conductors will be overloaded? What's an acceptable probability? 5%? 1%, .1%? How lucky do you feel today?

Reply to
trader4

" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

You are being obtuse again - something (one thing) you are very good at.

Reply to
clare

e:

f the transformer

Perhaps you'd like to explain. If you connect both hots in a house to one service conductor, then that conductor and the neutral can wind up with twice the current that they are rated for. A house with a 100 amp service that normally could not put more than 100 amps on the conductors can now put 200 amps on one hot and the neutral. You say that's OK because it's not very likely to happen. Is that the new way circuits are designed to code and safety?

Reply to
trader4

Some smart meters do indeed provide remote disconnect/reconnect capability. They certainly wouldn't use triacs though, they would use a motor/solenoid actuated disconnect.

Reply to
Pete C.

On 6/1/2012 2:12 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: ...

The breaker is 2-pole and will still trip at 100 A (or whatever it's rating is). I got this wrong earlier, too.

And, since there would be no 240 V loads at all, all the circuits of

120V would be unlikely to have the draw even if fully loaded (granted, that's not a Code thingie but it is certainly unlikely to be able to draw that much load on the lighting and outlet circuits only).

I still don't see that that's what the brochure indicates is what GE is doing, though, is the question I'd like to see actually resolved.

Load shedding I see (I think, I'm still not sure about where the contacts are or whether are actually in the base product or are a factory option--to me the brochure is tantalizingly vague on detail and I found no more in depth documents altho granted I didn't spend a long time looking).

--

Reply to
dpb

" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

the transformer

I did NOT say it was "OK" I just said the chances of it happening would be EXTREMELY unlikely because ALL heavy loads are 240 and as such would be shut off.

What combination of 110 volt loads in YOUR house would come close to

100 amps, muchless 200 - or heaven help you, 400 amps??????

I'm sure any "intelligent system" that would allow doubling up the two sides of a 240 volt service onto one side of the supply would also monitor current and SHUT DOWN at least one side at a time in case of overload.

Reply to
clare

snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca improperly and unnecessarily quoted dozens of unnecessary lines from at least 14 previous posts in this thread.

Would it kill you to trim the garbage before you add a few sentences to the end of this train of visual trash?

Reply to
Home Guy

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