a problem with electric meters?

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One of my friends sends me an email about a local state rep who is preseinting to the Md. Public Service Commission a "case" to allow people to reject smart meters. Nowhere does it say what kind of meter, and I'm thinking it might means taximeter or galvanometer, but I guess it means electric meters. Or gas meters?
Is there any reason to reject one?
BTW, the state rep also has a 2-hour show each week on the local wacko radio station.
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wrote:

There are at least three schools of thought
1. they are a radiation hazard since they RF the data back to the host 2. they are a privacy problem because they can send usage data in real time 3. they do not read low like a 40 year old, worn out mechanical meter so you bill will go up.
#3 is probably driving the other two.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Agree-- but you missed #4 - they are new so they must be evil.
I was surprised that I didn't notice when they replaced my 30yr old electric meter that I didn't notice a spike.
My water went up a bit when they replaced that 40+ yr old one-- but not enough to worry about.
Jim
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On 5/15/2012 7:21 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

My thoughts too.

Same here, our old meter was around 30 years old when they replaced it with a smart meter maybe two years ago. There was no difference in the bill.

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actually its a spying thing, they can pick up conversations in the home, and send it back over the power line. thank terrorists:)
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Maybe reprogram your TV remote, too?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .

actually its a spying thing, they can pick up conversations in the home, and send it back over the power line. thank terrorists:)
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On Tue, 15 May 2012 00:05:49 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

3a) Many of these new smart meters are programmed to read high with certain loads. They don't give credit for power returned to the grid. Resulting in bills 5 to 15% higher than previous..
3b) The Filters in Smart meters are not as good as those in old meters and can result in gross errors..
3c) Like all modern electronics.. Limited lifespan.. 5-7 years.. And when they fail the customer is likely to get screwed..

4) Can turned on and off the customers electric service remotely.
5) Can remotely switch your service from 220v to 110v. (thus disabling all 220v appliances, A/C, stove, pumps, etc).
6) Wireless protocal is going to be hacked. It's not a matter of if, but when, and by whom. The consequences to society could be enormous.
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"T. Keating" wrote:

Are you saying that smart-meters don't measure inductive, reactive or non-linear loads correctly - such that they err on the side of the utility company?

What returned power?
If you're referring to power generated by the customer (solar, wind, etc) then (a) very few home-owners have a co-gen installation, and (b) those that do are paid by the utility for any power they generate through special feed-in tarrif programs and would have a separate meter installed to measure the feed-in amount.
(other technical reasons - unverified but possibly true)
Beyond those possible technical reasons, smart-meters represesnt a false economy because their installed cost far outweighs any benefit to the residential user in terms of the possible savings they might achieve in time-shifting their electricity usage to reduce peak-load demand for the utility.
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Yup..

Certain motorised devices also act as generators and return a percentage of that energy back to grid in backside(90-180, 270-360 degrees) of each AC -phase.
Instead of getting a credit for that returned energy, you get double billed. (According the GE engineers).

From what I've heard, talking to smart meter installers, they don't change out the meter for net-metering customers who've signed agreements.

That I would agree on. I've been reading my meter daily for last 6 years, so I really don't need the online featues and the loss of privacy.
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On 5/30/2012 7:40 AM, T. Keating wrote:

It has nothing to do with generator action. It is what inductors (motors) do. (Also capacitors.)

You are claiming the meters do not accurately measure power when the power factor is not 1.0.
Cite.
--
bud--

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On 5/30/2012 9:33 AM, T. Keating wrote:

IMHO you are confusing cyclic power flow reversal that is produced by every inductor and capacitor with net power reversal that might result from photovoltaic installations. And the meter likely can sense if it is installed upside down.
It is inconceivable that the meter does not register cyclic reversal caused by inductors and capacitors. The net power flow is always toward the load, and unless there is a lot of inductive load is likely toward the load at any instant. You are saying the watt-hour meter does not measure routine watt-hours.

Filter circuit? I would be real surprised if the new meters don't sample voltage and current, multiply, and integrate.
--
bud--

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On 5/31/2012 2:45 PM, bud-- wrote: ...

There's no chance it's anything else but fully digital--think how little it takes to do audio these days and they're sampling at probably somewhere in the 3-500 Hz range which is 10X under audio...
On the net metering idea, GE datasheet indicates it is a factory option and FPL has a request form for customers to fill out to request a net metering installation so there's all that seems to be needed.
And indeed, the meter has tampering detection built in; I'm quite certain that will include something as basic as upside down installation altho in high likelihood that is taken care of by orientation-specific mounting that only allows one direction.
--



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yup...
Here is a first hand story, different make and model but the I-210+ would have the same problem.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26823456-My-Smart-meter-story
In this case a new homeowner purchased a house that had a grid tie PV installation and the power co's new smart meter was charging her for every watt hour the PV system put back into the grid.
The default configuration of the I-210+ is to add together both power received and power delivered and report that as (register 1) total energy consumed.. See page 9 line item 6, center column(I-210+) for more info..
http://www.gedigitalenergy.com/products/brochures/I210_Family.pdf

Any electronic measuring device is going to need a filter, otherwise rf nosie spikes(motor brushes, poorly designed switching power supplys, arcing, etc) can/will be incorrectly sampled and result in gross errors.
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But the story below is exactly what Bud is talking about. I think the meters do correctly measure reactive power. As Bud said, with any realistic load the power is always going to be flowing into the home. The case in the story is that the meter does not register power when the net flow is going back into the grid, ie the solar cells are producing more power than the house is using. The reactive thing is an instantaneous change in the net flow going into the house. Like Bud, I believe the meters would have to measure that. The other is when power is constantly flowing into the grid from the solar cells producing more power than the house uses. That I can see the meter not measuring unless it is properly set up.

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On 5/31/2012 4:43 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: ...

...
As the brochure says the GE meter has four possible configurations that are factory configured. FPL has a request form for its customers to fill out if they have reason to request a net usage meter and then they will install it. Problem solved.
I'd be quite comfortable in betting that the utility of the lady in question above has a similar way to handle the problem.
--



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wrote:

Don't know about GE, but the Sensus iSA2 does.
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On 5/31/2012 7:33 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

In this day and age there's zero chance it isn't anything else.
As for filtering, there are whole series of parts available for anti-aliasing...a typical app note on why/how...
<http://jimfranklin.info/microchipdatasheets/00699b.pdf
One can be sure GE has implemented the function one way or another--either w/ a custom part or by integrating an off-the-shelf production part.
--
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wrote:

I suppose the electric company would charge you some extra fee because someone would have to come and read it.
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On 5/15/2012 6:54 AM, snipped-for-privacy@toyotamail.com wrote:

One of the features of smart meters is they are remotely read.
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wacko
Yes, now a criminal working at a power company can check whether you are at home, so they can "visit" your home safely......
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