A New Leaf....

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When SWMBO and I were leaving home this AM (Late for where we were going as usual.) I pulled the car out of the garage and pushed the button on the door opener remote in the car.
We watched the door closing smoothly, but about rive inches from full down it reversed direction and went back up. Another try produced the same results.
We had about 8 inches of wet snow here in Red Sox Nation yesterday, so I jumped out of the car and went looking for some snow or ice that the door might be striking near the ground and reversing in response to "overload."
I couldn't find spot like that. I tried adding my strength to the opener's as the door was coming down by pushing downwards on the outside door handle. No luck, the opener still reversed close to fully closed.
I finally went inside the garage and watched the door as it was descending. And there it was, a dead tree leaf stuck to the bottom edge of the door and extending inwards enough to interrupt the photoelectric safety beam and trigger the opener's reversing.
Pulled that dead leaf off and Bob's your uncle, all's well again.
I've only had photoelectric safeties on the garage doors for a couple of months as that's when I replaced the two 30 year old Craftsman openers which were given up their ghosts with brand new Craftsman openers which came with photoelectric safety stuff I added when changing out the openers.
That photoelectric stuff wasn't around when I installed the original openers, so I never really had any experience with it and didn't think of it at first as being the cause of the door reversing near fully closed. I know better now.
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
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On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 12:51:31 PM UTC-5, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

You'll find that's very common, a leaf or similar is all it takes. Happens here couple times a year. One thing I do like about the photoelectric ones is that they also turn the opener light on when you break the beam. That's nice when you've had the door open, been outside at night, then re-enter the garage.
Brass Rat 78, 6-1 here too, BTW.
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On 2/6/2016 12:51 PM, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Mine are mounted about a foot apart up in the rafters. So far, no leaves.
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On 02/06/2016 12:28 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Ditto excepting there's a wrap around them to keep the stinkin' millers (army cutworm moths that are always a nuisance every spring here) from flitting in between...
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On 2/6/2016 12:28 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

That's cheating, Ed. How the hell is the government going to protect you from yourself if you do that sort of thing?
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On 2/7/2016 2:04 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

He chose that location so that if he is ever up in the rafters working on roof repairs and happens to *fall* while the door is in the process of closing, the photodetector will prevent him from being crushed by the door so his death is unambiguously attributable to the HEAD INJURIES he sustains! :>
[Gotta keep those GDO liability claims to a minimum!!]
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On Sat, 6 Feb 2016 12:51:28 -0500, Jeff Wisnia

If this would work, wouldn't it be a way to kill the neighbor boy and make it look like an accident?

That's good.

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On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 2:38:21 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:

OK, I'll play along.
First, let's assume a couple of things:
1 - The downward force of a GDO might be enough to injure or even a kill a very small child. 2 - The neighbor boy that one might want to kill is going to be older than a very small child. I mean, the kid has to have done something one might consider worthy of killing for, right? So, he's probably a teenager or young adult.
All right, with those 2 assumption in play, is the downward force of a GDO, even set at maximum downforce, enough to actually kill a teenager/young adult?
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

It isn't just the downforce setting, it's also the inertia of the door. Our garage doors are wood, and weigh well over 200 pounds each, which makes for a lot of kinetic energy when they are in motion .
I'm scared to think of what would happen to the kid's skull if he was lying in just the wrong spot so his head was on a concrete floor and a moving door came down on it.
I remember the first time one of the door extension springs broke, and it didn't have a color code on it indicating its strength. To find out how heavy the door was I disconnected the remaining spring and used a bathroom scale with a 2:1 wood lever over it, because the scale topped out with the door directly on it.
I ended up buying "150 lb" springs and have had to replace them (in pairs) maybe three or four times times in 30 years when another one broke.
And yes, I did put safety cables inside those springs when the first one broke, something the builders didn't bother with when we had our home built. I happened to be in the garage while a door was closing the first time a spring broke and the noise of the spring whacking against the ceiling and door track scared the shit out of me. That's when I learned about the need for safety cables in extension springs.
Jeff
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Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
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On 2/7/2016 10:41 AM, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

I'm not quite sure. I *watched* a neighbor back his van over one of his children -- who had dashed under it to retrieve a ball (horrible feeling seeing something like that unfold in front of your eyes and being powerless to do anything about it!)
The kid ended up wearing a back brace after that. Not sure what the eventual outcome was (I moved away shortly thereafter).

You should periodically lubricate them. Their coils rub against each other (assuming coiled, tension).

Ah, you have the linear springs.

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On 2/7/2016 2:55 PM, Don Y wrote:

Agree; that does sound miserable to watch.
This won't change your nightmare, but I saw close to such a situation once. The boy about three years old was running around as the father backed the rental truck in. I picked up the boy and held him as I stood in miror sight of Dad and waved him in. Figured Dad could see that his boy was not under a wheel. Not sure if the Dad figured out the reason, but I'm pleased to say the boy was not injured.
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On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 12:41:15 PM UTC-5, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

You are talking about a case where the door is not being controlled by a GDO.
In your OP, you said that you tried adding your strength to GDO as it was closing and Micky asked that if that had worked (basically defeating the sensors and allowing the door to close even with a blockage) woluldn't tht be a way to kill the neighbor boy.
There is very little "kinetic energy" when the door is being lowered with the GDO because the GDO is holding it back.

That's my question. Even at the highest downward force setting, I believe that the door will eventually reverse when it hits an obstruction. The downward force setting is there to overcome things like a cold, stiff door, maybe a track that is slightly out of alignment, etc. It's not there to drive the door down through the pavement.
So my question remains: Can a garage door that is being controlled by a GDO actually exert enough force to kill a teenager/young adult?

Interesting story, but not the situation I am asking about.

I once worked with a guy that got hit upside the head by a side-spring that snapped as he was walking by it. He was out of work for about a month and when he came back his face was still all bruised. Damn near killed him. His wife heard the noise and when he didn't come in right away, she went out and found him unconscious on the garage floor.
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

Re my "kinetic energy" comment, it might be interesting to put a coconut (in place of a real kid's skull.) on the concrete where the door comes down and see what happens to it.
I doubt if the downforce reversing of the opener can happen fast enough to overcome the inertia of the moving door and "save" the coconut.
Jeff
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Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
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On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 6:28:38 PM UTC-5, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

No way to tell what the downward is set at in this video or what would have happened to a skull or coconut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uFl6cNUh04

BTW...I don't think I coconut is a good substitute for a skull. I think a skull would pop/deform long before a coconut would.
Maybe we need Jamie and Adam to build us a skull analogue.
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On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 09:06:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

Assuming that circuit is working.

Perhaps not. My goal would be to kill smaller children so that's not really a problem for me.

I think a coconut is a lot stronger than a child's skull.

That would be almost good enough. If I coudln't kill the young man, I could at least arrange it so he needed help to eat.

Plus it can land on their chest, or their back behind their chest, so that it doesn't have to crush anything, just prevent inhaling.
Do you know what fail-safe is? Your system is fail-unsafe.
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wrote:

This is the video that ran automatically after the one above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxuS7J3eEnA

It looks like a very expensive house with a custom garage door that opens sideways, and perhaps servants. Well it's hard to tell if those people were already there or how long it took until they came, the girl in the blue smock, the guy in the yellow overalls, and the one who looks like a nurse. The guy with the tie seems like the husband.

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On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 10:32:16 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:

I saw that one too.
Considering the security booth, underground garage, smocks, etc. I'd guess it's a hospital, not a house.
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2016 03:19:48 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

MY brother had a laundry room, bathroom just off his garage and I thought that's what that was. And yeah there was no light coming in when the garage door was open but I figured it was night out or the garage was half a flight down. But being a hospital would account for how all those people were there so quickly.
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wrote:

The two passenger trains that hit each other head on in Germany today, the 9th, had a safety system so that they couldnt' do that. I guess it didn't work. 10 dead, 80 injured.
"He says the stretch was fitted with a safety system designed to automatically stop trains to prevent such a crash and it's not clear why it didn't function."
And as for setting the photocells to work at 2 feet above the floor: with 2 more mirrors one can have the same photocell work at 2 feet and 5 inches at the same time.
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<stuff snipped>
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-23/news/mn-2908_1_garage-door
<<WASHINGTON - At least 46 children have died in the last eight years because they were struck by automatic garage doors, government safety experts said Monday. They urged that homeowners replace all garage doors that do not have automatic reverse. The children were killed when closing doors did not reopen automatically, the Consumer Product Safety Commission said.
The agency said children's lives could be safeguarded by checking the garage door opener and having it repaired or replaced immediately if the door does not respond to striking an object.>>
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Bobby G.





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