a letter to those who voted for Bush

Page 6 of 10  
Well, you're wrong about outsourcing of technology jobs. Paying an incompetent programmer 50K per year is not productive for companies. If a company needs 300 programmers for a project that doesn't require superior design skills, the cost of finding 300 competent programmers is astronomical. Its not like finding a guy to hammer stone or to weld a joint. You have to fly guys in. You have to spend 100s of hours interviewing. It takes months to get them acclaimated. You have to pay top dollar. Moving costs. Its too much.
Good programming jobs stay here. Its all about being worth the going rate of pay. Manufacturing jobs are being moved out because the cost of an employee to do a job that anyone can do is too high. Would you pay someone $300. to clean your house? (depends on the size of your house, I guess). If thats the going rate, you get an illegal or you do it yourself. Everything has a value. When the cost becomes greater than the value you have to figure out something else.
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Are you kidding? Companies are outsourcing $8/hour phone support jobs to India, citing "legacy costs" (health insurance etc) as an excuse. Absolutely outrageous.
The mask has finally been ripped off America's shareholders to reveal the greedy, evil beast underneath. It is the Evil Empire.
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No. I don't kid about outsourcing. It's an American disgrace.
Liz
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I mean no offence, but you must be hanging around a bunch of losers. I'm not saying it's not possible to be making less, but why would they? If they are in a field were their position is a dime-a-dozen, it's time to find a different job, even if that means moving to a different town or even a different state. Out of the hundreds of people I know, the only ones making LESS than they were 4 or 5 years ago are the ones that have retired. The other few are ones that worked at jobs that they were not very good at and had to take a lesser paying job that they WERE good at.
BTW, I am just now making what I was FIFTEEN years ago. Back then I was a programmer. I still don't regret getting out of that field......
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wrote

In Florida the average annual income went down $7000 last year. Why? The higher paying jobs left and now all there is left is the malls, the fast foods, etc.. The only jobs that are left that pay are service type jobs and not all people have the skills or talents for that.
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wrote

I'd love to take an informal poll in this newsgroup to see who is making more, less or the same compared to 2000. I think it would be interesting.
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Me too, and I'll participate.
I happen to be in a field (medical transcription) in which maybe half of the jobs have been outsourced, primarily to India. There is still plenty of work left for us Americans; however, the rates have dropped by as much as half in the past 5 years or so due to outsourcing to a country where people can live comfortably on $100 a month. Thanks to software I've purchased which increases my production, I personally have not noticed any decrease in my hourly pay. My income is less, but that's because I choose not to work as many hours as I once did. On the other hand, my son-in-law, who holds a masters degree in Information Systems and started his own business seven years ago, has seen his income cut by half thanks to outsourcing.
Liz
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Whats interesting is that the "indians" probably wrote the software that made your life easier.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

What's interesting is how you talk to yourself in these threads. Oh, I see. AOL. Got it now...
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Wow, ya think that software includes a real newsreader? One that quotes text? Using AOL& Google combined. You really are an extraordinary loser.
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If I hadn't retired, I'd be making about 5K more than I did in 2000.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
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David Starr wrote:

But, at what cost?
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An extra thousand a year doesn't even cover the cost of living increases.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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how do you know what his "cost of living" is, or what he made before? I suspect that after 14K+ days in a union you were grossly overpaid when you retired. So why do you need a "cost of living" increase? Because the world owes you a living? Thats the problem with people in the middle class in America. They think they deserve more every year even if their value stays the same. Hence, we have outsourcing.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

....their value stays the same?! Exactly where do you live that "value" stays the same? There's this little thing called inflation, the thing that makes your house worth more every year even if you don't do any remodeling (it's "value" stays the same). Read more, post less.
R
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COL is a union/socialist concept. People should be paid the value of their work, not their cost of living. You should get raises because you get better at your job over time, not because you need more money to live the same way. Your employer has no obligation to finance your lifestyle. Thats why manufacturing jobs have to be outsourced. American workers think they are entitled to all of these goofy benefits just because they show up. Get better at your job and you get a raise. Increase your value to the company and you'll get paid more. Its something that succesful people understand.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Read up on labor history and come back when you have a clue.

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Norminn wrote:

Better yet, read up on labor history and DON'T come back.
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I fail to see how strong-arming employers into paying people more than they're worth is an American principle contemplated by our forefathers. What you're getting now is companies sticking it to the unions after the unions have been sticking it to companies for so many years. Its the unions that have been greedy. Health costs are up 10% a year, you can't get that plus a COL and expect companies to just absorb it.
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On 18 Sep 2005 11:51:51 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Do you have any idea at all why unions came into existence? My dad, who was a charter member of the UAW, told me about the conditions in the factories in the 30's. Want to keep your job? If you live on a farm, bring the foreman 2 dozen eggs and 2 chickens a week. Single, give the foreman 10% of your pay every week. Married? I'll pay your attractive wife a visit every now & then. When the boss speaks, you better look down at the floor like a good serf and call him sir. Henry Ford hiring detectives (Pinkerton, BTW) to peek in workers' windows. If they saw any activity Henry didn't like, such as having a beer after work, you're fired. When I started at GM in 1965, I worked with a lot of the sit-downers. I heard the stories. I heard the same stories from too many different people for them not to be the truth. My maternal grandfather died in a coal mine cave-in in the 20's. It wasn't "economically feasible" to recover his body. If the people in the factories had been treated even reasonably decently, there would have been no need for unions.
Send all manufacturing overseas. Kill the unions. Make sure nobody has a job that pays them enough to buy your products. What happens to the economy then? What happens to your company then? What happens to the country when 75% of the population is in a minimum wage job?
Contracts are negotiated; BOTH sides must agree to it's terms. Management agreed to COL and paid health care. They are free to negotiate no COL and/or reduced health coverage when the contract is up for renewal. The unions realize that killing the company kills their jobs as well.
Are you jealous of the benefits union members have? Or, do you just think that the people that work for hourly wages are scum that deserve none of benefits you have?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant. Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
Web Site: www.destarr.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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