A HP case study

Awl --
So apropos of the dialogue with the idiot Salty Dog on fraudulent hp ratings in ahr, and after some links in the other rcm thread, I did another test.
Larry moe curly said: They quit lying because of this lawsuit:
http://classactionworld.com/Air+Compressor+Litigation/saaoc/891.html
Unfortunately the cutoff date for filing was Oct. 24, 2004. -------------------------------------
Unfortunately, they apparently have not stopped lying, at least in wet-dry vacs. But inyway, Salty Dogshit, there's your cite. Read it and enjoy..... You can apologize to me later, and don't forget to thank larry moe curly.
amdx posted: Rated 6.5 peak hp, That's 40 amps at 120 Volts if you ignore inefficiency. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00917066000P?vName=Tools&cName=Shop+Vacs+%26+Dust+Collection&sName=Wet-Dry+Vacuums
-----------------------------------------------------
I realized that I actually had one of those units in the corner of my shop, except mine was a Rigid, also rated at 6.5 hp. 6.5 hp????? Holy shit....
So I took it apart, put a vise grip on the rotor, plugged the unit into my ampprobe adapter, put an ampprobe on it, turned on the switch, and hung on for dear life. Holy shit.... 35 amp locked rotor current!! That was surprising, given how light the motor part of the unit was.
And 9 amp running current -- more on that later.
Doing the calcs, the locked-rotor hp is 5.4 hp, not 6.5, altho there might have been some voltage drop in the cord -- 35 amps in a 16 ga cord, donchaknow.
But, factor in an 80% motor efficiency, and that drops to 4.3 locked-rotor hp -- so these muthafuckas are misrepresenting even their locked-rotor power figures!!! Figgers.....
Oh, and we haven't even put in the *power factor*, inherent in all electric motors (from inductance, capacitance), which further diminishes the hp -- proly by another 20%.
So, what IS the TRUE hp, in a wet-dry vac?
Well, it turns out, that when disassembled, vacs draw the *most* current, cuz of the least resistance to air flow -- in this case, 9 amps. If you BLOCK the air inlet, the rpm goes way up, and the current draw drops to 6 amps.
So, 9 amps is the FUNCTIONAL MAXIMUM current draw of a vac, and it proly drops to 8 amps when re-assembled, with the cannisters, filters, hoses, etc..
So the REAL operational hp of this vac is not 6.5 hp, not 5.4, and not 4.3 hp.
It is ACTUALLY 8 x 120 x .8 x .8/746 (amps x volts x motor eff x power factor/ watts per hp) which calcs out to about .8 hp. Not 8.0, but 0.8. Holy shit.....
So the FUNCTIONAL MAXIMUM HORSEPOWER of this unit is not 6.5, 5.4, 4.3, 3, 2, or 1 -- it's 0.8 hp. There is NO WAY this type of unit can generate any more than this, unless you fundamentally changed the unit by opening up ports, hoses, filters, etc.
MAYBE you can tweak the calcs to get this hp number up to 1.0. Still......
Thus, a claim of 6.5 hp is not only physically impossible on a 120 V circuit, it is a fraudulent exaggeration by 800 percent. Imagine if your effing taxes went up by 800%.
The situation for other tools may be somewhat more ambiguous, but for vacs it is CRYSTAL CLEAR, because of the nature of the current draws vs air flow: T The usable hp CANNOT get any higher than in the totally disassembled, unclogged state, which is how it was tested. Use of a vac actually REDUCES the hp requirement -- think of the above drop to 6 amps under 100% clogging, which is the least power draw of this vac.
So claiming 6.5 hp is quadruply irresponsible, gratuitous, nonsensical, and fraudulent.
No doubt, none of this is good enough for disingenuous kneejerk assholes like Salty Dog, Shitty Two, and Ricodjour, who are no doubt going to bleat Liar, Where are the cites, blah blah blah.
They are so quick to call others liars because they themselves are inveterate and incorrigible effing liars, as Ricodjour just proved in the Major score thread, with the resurrection of the Climb vs Conventional / Dual Saw topic.
So inyway, there are the numbers for a 6.5 hp wetdry vac.
Not that it's really a practical biggie -- the unit seems functional enough, altho a neighbor's wife begged me to take out of her garage -- hubby wadn't too pleased when he found out, but since sed wife has a butt crack butterfly tattoo about 1 foot square that he apparently finds perty aphrodesiacal, he didn't say much. I myself prefer the vac.....
It also has a detachable leaf-blower top -- ingenious design.
It appears that compressors are more conservatively rated as a result of the above lawsuit, but virtually all of these big-box asshole companies will lie to the fullest extent of the law.
The trick is to find the smallest bunch of lies for your consuming buck.
--
EA



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http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00917066000P?vName=Tools&cName=Shop+Vacs+%26+Dust+Collection&sName=Wet-Dry+Vacuums
Oh, the fact that these companies can't even get the locked rotor lie correck, and then the fact that their lie is an 800% exaggeration over reality, suggests that perhaps 3 Sears hp is indeed = to 1 Porter Cable hp. This would be a mere exaggeration of 300%, which in comparison is a relative bargain.
--
EA






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On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 23:38:14 -0500, "Existential Angst"

Sounds a lot like the latest advertising blurb from one of the big three auto makers- " Our quality is as good as Toyota and Honda" Gerry :-)} London, Canada
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On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 22:37:05 -0500, "Existential Angst"

You shoulda read the cite. It doesn't mention Sears even once, Nitwit!
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On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 06:31:46 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@dog.comwrote:

Looks like you make friends in every news group you infect.
....heh
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wrote:

Alcohol is not your friend, Muteplow.
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On 1/7/2010 06:31, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

Normally I don't care for folks who insult us by using slang and not normal words when writing but does "SEARS ROEBUCK AND CO" count?
Hint: all browsers have a find function.
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wrote:

LOL..You can't make this stuff up.
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wrote:

"Sears" is a registered trademark, and is how the company identifies itself.
http://www.sears.com/
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

Sigh. They were "SEARS ROEBUCK AND CO" for over 100 years. Can you really be that stupid?
--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

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wrote:

How do you make it thru my posts, then? Must be torture!
--
EA



but does "SEARS ROEBUCK AND CO" count?
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wrote:

Well, as others pointed out, it does.
And even if it didn't, that wasn't the point. The point is, motor rating fraud WAS litigated. Dudn't matter if it was compressors, routers, or vacs.
AND, *litigation* doesn't even matter! I showed, again, that the fraud continues. That you are so devoid of character that you are compelled to clutch at straws no matter how backed into a corner you are with your own false assertions, allegations, concepts, etc, is something you should talk to yer mom about, or get therapy for.
If you are going criticize, or throw stones, or nitpick, do something legitimate like EZ Peaces, who brought up the excellent excellent point about peak vs rms -- he's absolutely right!! Peak voltage on a 120 V 60 Hz sine wave is 177 V, with a similar rise in the current!!! Heh, I forgot about that!
Now, because EZ has a brain+character, and understands the nature of inneresting discussion, while you haven't a clue about any of this, he didn't use this to dismantle my argument, but to contribute to the discussion. My points still stand, and you still don't have an effing clue -- about anything, apparently.
I am glad, finally, that *others* are now acknowledging your own fraud. Now, go away, and fix sumpn in yer mom's house, and try not screw it up or rip her off.
--
EA



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On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:13:42 -0500, "Existential Angst"

It's amazing how much mileage I got out of simply twisting your nipple a few days ago over something so unimportant. You still haven't stopped howling.
Please continue!
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Existential Angst wrote:

You also forgot that you were testing an old motor, not a brand new one with bright, shiny copper segments & new brushes like they used. Higher contact resistance limits the maximum current.
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