A crook caught

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God...you fell for it too I see..
twinky
im not worried about a thing..unlicenced folks are what we call job security. Please continue to support your local hack.
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CBHVAC wrote:

An insured company vs. an uninsured company are not comparable services.

Nevermind the Basic Accounting. Basic Common Sense should tell you to check that the contractor has both liability and disability insurance.

Exactly. Licensing is cheap. If a guy is skimping on that, what else is he skimping on? You figure even a small contractor, a one man operation, should be billing out $75K as a minimum (and likely much more than that), so licensing would add, at most, 1% to his cost of business. Spread out over the course of a year, the "bite" to each individual customer is negligible. Hardly a reason to avoid licensing.
R
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"RicodJour"> wrote

Licensed contractors don't skimp?
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Don wrote:

Depends on the contractor. You honestly don't believe that someone who is breaking some of the rules isn't breaking others? If the guy is unlicensed where else is he going to cut corners? I certainly wouldn't want to find out on my house.
You still have to do your due diligence in investigating someone before you hire them - references, check with BBB and contractor licensing, etc. If they're not licensed I don't see any reason to go any further.
R
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"RicodJour"> wrote

One day you were unlicensed, uneducated and inexperienced. Then you plopped your ransom on the counter and magically you were educated, experienced and LICENSED! Please Rico, you can do better than that, I know you can.
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Don wrote:

True.
You've got the timeline wrong. I was educated, got experience working for others, learned I needed to be licensed and insured to do business and did just that.

I believe that licensing doesn't guaranty problem-free contracting, and I also believe that unlicensed contractors are breaking the law, cutting corners and a risk that most people don't need to take. My question to you Don: You don't believe licensing is either necessary nor moral, yet you're licensed, why?
R
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"RicodJour"> wrote

Good, we're in agreement so far.
and

So? Unjust laws are meant to be broken. If there was a law against eating you'd break it.

Don't get me started on people that cut corners. Don't forget, I built a home in recent memory and am more than knowledgeable in what licensed contractors are capable of. Quality control by licensed contractors and their earringed on-site employees? Please.
My

It ain't about me Rico. Its about your silly assed assertion that people that haven't paid ransom to the state are inompetent and prone to error MORE so than people that have paid the ransom.
("The day before I paid ransom I was incapable, but the day I paid ransom I instantly became capable!")
You, and all the other asserters in this thread have failed big time to show why your licenses make you better than people that aren't. What you folks have done though is demonstrate in a public forum your questionable character and your extreme fear that persons better than you will put you out of business. Whining like little girls. This is specifically addressed to you, Rico, in response to your attempt above to smear me because you are unable to intelligently prove your faulty assertion.
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Don wrote:

Lame analogy. If there's a lower speed limit going through a school zone, and I know that all the kids are inside so there's no chance of me creating a mini road pizza, I still slow down. Regulations that don't have a majorly negative impact, but are just a little inconvenient, are not the equivalent of forced starvation.

Please go back and search the newsgroup for our exchanges immediately preceding and during the construction of your house. You might have more respect for some of my opinions, even if they differ from yours, from the improved vantage point of hindsight.

Interesting. Persons better than me... I don't look at it like that, but let's work with it. The license doesn't make someone a better contractor automatically - you're just playing word games with that. But not having a license in an area that requires contractor licensing does make someone worse. Someone may have the most awe inspiring grasp of construction ever contained in one brain, but there's much more to contracting than just knowledge of construction. It's a business. How many skilled tradesmen do you think start up construction companies of one sort or another, only to find out that the business end of the business is eating them alive? They hate the paperwork, dealing with customers, filing for permits, insurance, etc. You honestly believe that person is a better contractor? I don't - I consider them a better craftsman, maybe, but definitely not a better contractor.
Can it be conclusively proven that licensing improves the quality of the available contractor pool? Maybe, maybe not - but there can be little doubt that someone that is willing to ignore some regualtions that are inconvenient for them are more likely to ignore other things as well. Which areas of contracting do you feel are okay to ignore?
Licensing is not a panacea, but it is a starting point. Until the day where there is an equivalent of an eBay-type feedback mechanism in everything, how are people to determine the wheat from the chaff? I'm not just talking just about contractors, but doctors, accountants, and businesses of all types.

You're taking this way too personally, but that's up to you. There's no attempt to smear, just calling you on a question. Which still stands.
R
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wrote:

The Venn diagram is two concentric circles. The outer one is corner-cutting, unreliable hacks. The inner one is liscenced and insured tradesmen.
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Goedjn wrote:

Whatchya talking about, Willis? I haven't heard something so silly since I don't know venn. ;)
R
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Ven you Vaant to kvit vit zis vundefful schtuff?
--

Christopher A. Young
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True but it does provide for accountability.

I disagree. It shows certain standards were met and a demonstrated level of knowledge.
What about RSES certifications and NATE?
--
Paul\'s cat got a furball and kept saying weasel\'s name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*
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wrote:

No more so than any court or arbitration proceedings. They say you can sue a ham sandwich in the courts these days.

Isn't it possible for someone to have the education and the experience yet NOT have a license? Yes it is because, though I have held 3 licenses for almost 20 years prior to that I was unlicensed for 4 years. Licensure didn't change the quality of my work, but it did effect my bottom line. In all things the rule is *caveat emptor*, buyer beware, regardless of license or not.
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Are you actually arguing licensing is a bad thing?
--
Paul\'s cat got a furball and kept saying weasel\'s name.

*Hack* *Hack* *hack*
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wrote:

Un-fucking-believable. Can you NOT read Bill? Maybe I didn't type slowly enough for you.
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You keep haranguing licensing. So are you arguing it's a bad thing or just that you are above being licensed and decry the extortion?
So to re-word and repeat what you couldn't comprehend. You'd rather there was no licensing. So anybody can do HVAC/R contracting?
If you're stuck on whether someone can be knowledgeable in the trade and unlicensed, I mistakenly assumed that was a rhetorical question, since only a retard would have disagreed. Apparently you wanted an answer to either comfort you or you needed something to say to couch your tirade against licensing in. So why were you licensed for "almost 20 years prior" if you are so against licensing?
Either way. Licensing is there to protect the consumer and provide proof of a minimum competency.
You still haven't answered what you were licensed in. Auto?, Fishing?, Plumbing?, Barber?, Dental? Accounting?, Insurance? HVAC?, Law?, Daycare? Real Estate? What?
--
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wrote:

Amazing. And you say you're *licensed*, eh? Bill, you're the best thing that ever happened to unlicensed people.
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Don wrote:

But the odds are higher that an unlicensed person is incompetent or cutting corners in other areas.

Or you may be paying a bit more., but it's not wasted money.
R
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"RicodJour"> wrote

Nothing like a guess to solidify your argument.

Its really none of your business what other people waste their money on, is it?
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Don wrote:

That's why they're called odds. 1. The ratio of the probability of an event's occurring to the probability of its not occurring. 2. The likelihood of the occurrence of one thing rather than the occurrence of another thing, as in a contest:

You consider it a waste because of your personal experiences with your licensing. That's a reactionary viewpoint, albeit an understandable one. You consider yourself an exception to most rules, so why wouldn't you believe that you'd be the exception to the unlicensed? You wouldn't get licensed if you could avoid it on general principle and your antipathy to any form of government. Other people do it because they're cheap/crooks/don't-want-to-be-accountable/can't.
I don't consider it a waste because I don't like seeing people hurt - even people I don't know. Do you?
It's kind of like panties. If all of a sudden the dresser drawer is full of new sexy panties (and they're not yours ;) there just _might_ be something going on there. It's a warning sign. Unlicensed is a warning sign for contractors. It might be nothing, but you'd be a fool to not heed the warning.
R
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