A/C COSTS

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I know his topic's been covered recently. I guess that, at the time we don't pay close attention if the topic doesn't apply.
My neighbor recently had his ( whole-house ) air conditioner replaced. They arrived, removed the existing unit from the pad, Set down the new unit, connected, charged, electrified and tested. ( I don't think they replaced the heat-exchanger in the furnace )
Neighbor told me it cost $4000
I got "sticker shock".......
????
<rj>
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Greetings,
Does your neighbor occupy a 400 sq foot converted garage or a 10,000 sq foot mansion? Does the price include a 3 year service contract? Does he live in Antarctica or Death Vally? Is the AC zoned, web enabled, and controllable by text messages from his phone or does he have to come outside and kick it from time to time? Does the church pay his housing expenses and the installer his gay cousin he is always hitting on or is he a man of impeccable moral character leaning towards a three round bidding process? Depending on the answers $4000.00 is entirely reasonable.
Hope this helps, William
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Sorry I couldn't be more specific. As a HVAC "civilian", all I know about air conditioners is; they sit on a pad outside, and cool the house.
The neighbors house is a "double-wide" We live in Southern Arizona.
wrote:

<rj>
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This is Turtle.
I and my company likes the way you think. I wished there was more of you.
TURTLE
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My guess would be that they replaced the indoor coil too for that price, although it still seems a bit high to me. Also the SEER rating will affect the price greatly. 10 SEER units are relatively cheap, 12 SEER is a few hundred more. Jumping to 14-16 seer can easily double the price of the equipment. If he bought a 16+ SEER unit it was cheap! Also labor rates vary greatly from on area to another. Our rates are pretty low in this area. I have seen rates in larger cities that are twice what we charge. Greg
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A 2 ton condenser and SEER 10 (Bryant) costs 1300 installed, in my area (Midwest). A guys I know, who does it for a living, said he'd put in a Goodman condenser of that size for a $1000 and still make money. No messing with the coil, but it does include a system sniff and full installation.
This is pretty much the low end of the scale for size, efficiency and sophistication. The price will go up from that.
I've done some digging on the net for prices of condensers and they are available for about $600 in the 2 ton size. Not sure what one costs retail locally.
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Several points.
wrote in message

Uh-huh...
If the evap coil is not replaced he didn't get SEER.

Right there.

retail
That money buys a condenser. No installation, NO warranty (because the manufacturers won't warrant an internet sale), no nothing.
You see these sites that tell you how easy it is. It truly ain't that hard, but you have to drop a lot of money to do it right. it's better money spent getting a licensed, trained pro to do the work. You'll get a warranty and someone to blame....
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Please educate me - why not? Isn't the efficiency in the compressor mostly, or even completely?
Rich
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RichK wrote:

Some compressors are more efficient than others, but this is only one of very many parameters involved in producing higher SEER ratings. In a nutshell the highest efficiency is produced by providing the greatest mass flow of refrigerant for the least amount of input energy. Typically this means increasing low side pressure and reducing high side pressure, usually by increasing the coil sizes and/or air volume. IOW the main object is to reduce the pressure differential across the compressor. More efficient motors and more efficient compressors can typically bump SEER up another couple of notches. There are still other tweaks besides these that can be incorporated. Virtually every component of a low SEER system has a more efficient alternative.
hvacrmedic
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A dirty indoor coil is far less efficient. Also there are different types and sizes of indoor coils. So.... a lot depends on having a proper size and type of indoor coil.
--

Christopher A. Young
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In alt.home.repair on Sun, 24 Jul 2005 02:04:49 GMT "Stormin Mormon"
This makes sense, but why then is it so hard to clean the A coil. I can't clean mine afaik. Do they clean it with an annual service call?
Also there are different types

Meirman -- If emailing, please let me know whether or not you are posting the same letter. Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.
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It probably depends on whether you're watching or not :-)
You have to ask what the service call includes. If the system is running OK, it may not include much.
Rich
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Please educate me - why not? Isn't the efficiency in the compressor mostly, or even completely?
Rich
No!
The efficiency is in a combination of ingredients. The compressor contributes, but so does the amount of power consumed by the indoor blower and outdoor fan motors. The indoor coil is one of two heat exchangers, if it does not have the correct surface areas on both the Freon and air sides, the efficiency will not be as high as it should. Also, when you change just the outdoor unit, the refrigerant metering device will not match the new outdoor unit, which is important. The metering device is picked to work correctly with the exact match between the indoor unit and outdoor unit. Then there is the indoor air flow. It should be checked and verified to be around 400 CFM per ton. This does not mean holding your hand over the grilles. It means using accurate test instruments. If the air flow is low, the heat transfer will not be there. Try driving your car with part of the radiator blocked with cardboard all summer. (The engine may overheat) Finally, the refrigerant charge has to be correct.
So there is a lot more involved than just changing the box that is outside.
Stretch
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area
a
installation.
mostly,
Actually, some of the efficiency is in the compressor, but most of the efficiency comes from the coil sizing, both evap and condenser.....

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Thanks to you, Stretch, and others, I'm starting to get the picture. Glad I did not jump into it.
Is there any way to tell if my old coil is "much too small" to realize the SEER 10. It easy to overpay and still not get it done right. This is why I visit here a lot lately :-)
The guy offering to do the work, said I needed a new coil only if I went to SEER 12 or higher. And with that, I'd need a bigger blower fan.
Rich
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I
I
to
Right. Is his company name is "Hacks-R-Us" or "Storming Moron Locksmith and HVAC?"

not always....

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I
I
to
No, not always. if he also going to install a Thermal Expansion Valve? New Linesets? Anything like that?

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" snipped-for-privacy@carolinabreezehvac.com"

No. None of the folks quoting it mentioned that. Will have to make another round and ask more questions.
Rich
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<RJ> writes:> Neighbor told me it cost $4000
It is much easier to pay too much. The guys that overcharge are waiting for your call. The guys that price fairly are all out busy working.
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If they just replaced the outdoor unit, four grand sounds high.
--

Christopher A. Young
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