90 amps for electric car charge!

[Bob F]

So, if the methane had just wafted off into the atmosphere, you are saying the carbon wouldn't have ended up in the atmosphere?

[Bob F]

I only relayed what I was told by the city inspector or the utility worker (not sure which). OK - they must be liers.

[keithw86]

He also claimed that the muni *always* notified the power company, even were they weren't under the same political entity.

The only permit I have ever pulled was for a garage and the power was ancillary. There was no mention of number of circuits or their ampacity or any other implementation details. The inspector inspected what was there.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Liers? You mean 'Liars', unless the 'P' fell off your Pliers. :)

It's more likely that they are not well trained. Any time I wanted real answers, I contacted the city engineer or the engineers at what ever utility was involved.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 2/18/2010 3:19 AM HeyBub spake thus:

Yup, that's what Dillinger, Morgan, Luciano, Capone, et al, always used to say.

[HeyBub]

I think it comes from the usual reaction of progressives when they don't get their way: the hold their breath until they turn blue (sometimes accompanied by foot-stamping).

Conversely, conservatives maintain a healthy pink constitution. Sometimes aided by home-made alcohol.

[VWWall]

That's all changed. The best way to rob a bank now is to own it!

[krw]

Well, there certainly is a LIAR here. Since you "can't remember" who told you this nonsense...

[David Nebenzahl]

On 2/18/2010 12:29 PM VWWall spake thus:

Don't even have to do that; just become a derivatives trader.

[George]

And the Congress too of course. That way when your aggressive pirate activities screw too many people and things get wobbly you can summon Congress to launch an aggressive spin campaign that you are "to big to fail" and have them pull money out of everyone's pockets to help poor you.

[<dhky]

--------- Aw, shoot, a sensible response- you could get blackballed for that!

----- Don Kelly cross out to reply

[<dhky]

I've lived where the power utility was owned by the city- it's not uncommon. However, the utility's mandate is on it's side of the metering. Permits apply to your side of the metering and code compliance /inspection covers your ass with the insurance company if something goes wrong. If the utility underestimated load growth and diversity- it is their problem (which will filter down to the customer base as a whole, rather than the individual). Whatever, I agree, it is laughable-the utility can't even detect the possibility of a grow-op until suspicious meter readings appear or the secondaries to the house of concern let out magic smoke.

----- Don Kelly cross out to reply

[George]

You would still need to purchase the appropriate politicians because after you get really greedy you might loose money so you will want someone on your side who can pull money out of everyone else's pockets to cover your gambling losses.

[Michael A. Terrell]

No kidding. Local code requires a 200 amp service around here, yet the primaries are still designed and fused for 60 amp service. This subdivison was built in the mid '60s, and was designed for about 18 A @

240 V average per home. That was fine when the houses used propane to cook and for heat. No one had air conditioning or electric stoves. A 60 A fuse in the primary around the corner goes on a regular basis. Usually on Friday evenings and within a few minutes of 5:00 PM when everyone gets home from work. They turn up the AC and start cooking. Then you hear the fuse explode like a shotgun.

It isn't as bad right now because several of the houses are vacant. It is a mostly senior subdivision and they are empty, awaiting probate. Others were bought by snowbirds, so they are empty through the summer but it still goes about once a month.

Most utility workers are trained for a very narrow range of work, and have little or no idea of the engineering behind the company or the rules & regulations they set.

[Michael A. Terrell]

I hit send too fast. :)

That's similar to living on a military base where they run the utilities, except they didn't meter the electric. They also supplied the water, natural gas (Where available), diesel fuel for the generators at remote bases and steam to heat buildings in cold climates. They operated the CATV and telephone systems, and in a few places they had the only local radio or TV station and printed the newspaper.

Ft. Greely, AK. was like that, except for natural gas which wasn't available.

I live within 15 miles of two city operated electric utilities. The rates are about double what people outside the city limits pay, and all the electricity comes from the same power plants. Then they complain when businesses move out of the city, or the county because of high taxes & utilities.

[<dhky]

------------------ Actually the rates were competitive. Rates in the whole region, including the city went up when de-regulation came in with chain store economics- maximise short term profit.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Not around here. The cities base a lot of their budget on the money they collect by jacking up the utility bills. Now they are crying because a lot of people have cut back their use, and a lot of restaurants and small businesses have closed which took a lot of their revenue.

[Cwatters]

I agree. Electric cars are perfectly viable as second cars in a two car family.

For many it would also be viable to use one to commute to work. Many people commute less than 30 miles and the car sits idle all day in the car park.

[Douglas Johnson]

Sure. So is exhaling. But in both cases, the carbon was taken out of the atmosphere in the fairly recent past. The methane from the landfill is generated by the decay of organic material -- food waste, grass clippings, etc. All that was created by plants taking CO2 from the atmosphere. Net balance to the planet is zero (more or less).

The problem with anthropogenic carbon, if there is one, is humans releasing carbon that has been buried underground for millions in the form of oil and natural gas.

I didn't see the report, so it didn't leave any impression with me. But if our landfills emitted enough methane to power the planet, there would be no global warming issue.

Plants would grow, remove CO2 from the atmosphere, we would throw them in the landfill, capture and burn the methane, return the CO2 to the atmosphere. Net balance zero (more or less).

-- Doug

[krw]

When we were younger, out "second car" was an old version of the "first car". IOW, we kept the old one. Now they're quite different vehicles (one car, one truck) for different purposes, in addition to commuting. A "second car" costing as much as an electric car is a non-starter.

If you're foolish enough to buy an *expensive* new car as just a commuter.