79 days left before the end of TV.

[AndyS]

Andy writes:

Here are some rules of thumb that, if you have any experience to the contrary, please take issue with me as I am eager to learn experiences of others...

A good analog signal needs about a 45 db SNR or so to make a good picture . As the SNR drops, the signal degrades, more or less linearly, down to a point where sync will drop out...or a blue screen appears, depending on the features in the set.

A good SD signal needs about a 16 db or so SNR at the decoder to lock. If the decoder is locked, the presentation will be good. As the signal SNR goes to where the decoder is dropping in and out of lock, the pixels will freeze until lock is re-established. When the decoder stays out of lock, the pix will stay frozen until the SNR goes so low that the signal detector says "No Signal".... It all happens very quickly , over a few db of SNR change, centered around 16 db or so, for a SD signal.

I don't know about HD...... I guess an interested party could google "HD SNR" and learn quickly.... (but I really ain't interested cuz I like more channels more than I like seeing sweat pores),,,, {>))

Andy in Eureka, retired comm designer from Raytheon/Texas Instruments

PS I ain't kidding about taking issue with me. I'm eager to learn if I've been doing stuff wrong for 40 years :>)))))

[dpb]

Mark Lloyd wrote: ...

...

You're undoubtedly not in far fringe areas where the signal strength is low enough to be questionable and analog reception is "iffy".

I've got the situation on the other end I'm talking about -- far distance, presently very low transmission power relative to VHF and the signal is, for all practical purposes, unusable.

Every once in a while (like once every 4-5 minutes) a frame would come across. When it did, it was, as expected devoid of snow and other such artifacts but w/ some level of pixel drop out. But, while some snow and other such analog artifacts, the VHF signal was, while not great, at least usable.

That's the situation I'm discussing, not whether there are some pixels missing now and then in a relatively strong signal area as most urban areas will be and it's only the passing intermittent interference problem that might cause a momentary glitch.

--

[dpb]

My experience has been a frame once or twice in a 5-6 minute period, otherwise a "no signal" message.

--

[dpb]

I don't know about the actual SNR numbers; I've never looked specifically for values.

My experience in looking for the digital broadcasts via the converter box basically echoes your description above -- while up at the antenna on the lift w/ the converter box and a small set so I could fiddle w/ the antenna aiming and see what was occurring I could occasionally manage to get a frame but it was only about 1-2 in 5 minutes or so--other than that, mostly the "no signal" message.

A scan would repeatedly find enough to identify that there was indeed a broadcast channel there, but the signal strength was too low to ever indicate anything at all on the tuning sensitivity screen to be any aid in aiming as would be true in any area w/ a usable signal level.

There was, of course, no information on the converter box about it's actual performance sensitivity levels, etc.

The FCC site the the antenna web .org site all seem to think eventually there should be a usable signal from all three of these translators but so far it just ain't happening.

I'd be far happier camper to simply be able to opt out, but that's not an option of course. One can only hope they will actually increase power to the digital transmission when they pull the plug on the analog and it's the limitation of how much power they have they can spare for the digital while the analog is still the standard that is the current problem and they're not planning on drastically curtailing their energy costs w/ the transition.

--

[mm]

I see. It would be a good opportunity for a scientific study, to see how long they look at the blank screens before complaining.

[hallerb]

my friends on OTA report a watchable usable analog signal is being replaced with a blank digital signal.....

of coursew everyt one of those friends currently uses bunny ears and completely refuses even the thought of a outdoor antenna.

pittsburgh terrain is tough with many hills and ghosts no doubt making the situation worse.

they should allow analog to continue indefinetely, sets normally last

10 years minimum. more sets need to attrition out.

plus many converters dont support analog pass thru, so the low power and translator stations will be shut out, when everyone is forced to use a converter.

the entire program is a excellent example of government failure

[Ed Pawlowski]

Moving Pictures Expert Group.

They set standards for compression It is the protocol and syntax to combine multiplex audio and video data for digital programs. I'm far from an expert on it though. You now know everything I know about it.

[Nixon.D]

Thanks, Ed.

McDave;OKIEAtLargeInMerryland =====================================================

[AndyS]

OOPS !!! I meant to say Discrete Cosine Transform........ DCT..

My fingers just got going too fast....

Andy in Eureka, Texas

[Mark Lloyd]

What about audio?

There's one station here like the above (a frame once or twice in a

5-6 minute period, otherwise a "no signal" message). The others are usually good enough to watch (if the antenna is turned right). They got like Gary H described this September when Hurricane Ike passed by.

[Mark Lloyd]

Analog reception is VERY iffy here.

pixels

[Nixon.D]

========================================================

And for sure !!! I understand and I remember the days when I had all possible Fourier Transforms and Cosines committed to memory. That was back in the days when I thought a pixel was some sort of a preverted fairy from the days of yore....

McDaveOfMerryland ===========================================

[dpb]

I got no comprehensible audio during the time I was doing the channel-searching experiment.

--

[dpb]

If you're getting digital then it would indicate to me they're broadcasting at respectable power levels vis a vis the analog.

--

[KC]

Like the water saver toilets that take 3 flushes to work properly. When will congress learn to do the things it needs to do and keep their noses out of all the rest? KC

[Joan F (MI)]

I have a low flow toilet that works perfectly on one flush. Of course, I suppose YOU could deposit a load of shit that no toilet would be able to handle.

KC wrote: | | Like the water saver toilets that take 3 flushes to work properly. | When will congress learn to do the things it needs to do and keep | their noses out of all the rest? | KC

[AndyS]

Andy comments:

I think some are designed so that when you give the handle a quick push, only enough water is released to flush pee.

And to flush something substantial, you have to hold the handle down for a bit so that the entire tank will empty into the bowl....

At least, that's the way mine seems to work....

Andy in Eureka, Texas

[Ed Pawlowski]

Like the water saver toilets that take 3 flushes to work properly. When will congress learn to do the things it needs to do and keep their noses out of all the rest? KC

************************************************ Old designs were like that. Our new ones have been perfect. Seems silly to use 5 gallons of water to flush 8 oz. of urine or a tiny turd when you can do it with 1.2 gallons. Get a Kohler or the new American Standard Cadet 4.

[aemeijers]

And the payback period on a $300 toilet, plus installation labor, is?.....

-- aem sends...

[hallerb]

.

=EF=BF=BDSeems silly to

many water saver toilets espically the power flush are very noisey, waking the entire home at 4 am isnt good. they sound like a jet at take off