220V dryer sparked on startup (3 wire) What to test?

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On Friday, November 15, 2013 5:14:25 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:

Assuming that was prior to the mid 90s, then it was code to use a single conductor for both the neutral and the ground. If you did it after that, it's a code violation.

Even if it was an old house, if you were doing new wiring, it has to comply to current code.

Hopefully it's also tied to the ground at your house panel or else it's a major code violation.

It's a more than semantics.

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On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 01:25:56 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico

180 degrees, but technically, no. It's opposite sign, not 180 degrees out of phase. ...and it should be 240V (twice 120V).

The timer usually runs off 120V.

The ground is a must, for safety. At one time, it was allowed to run the timer current though ground. A neutral conductor is now required for that current.
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On 11-15-2013, 19:58, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Same thing
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On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 01:17:23 -0500, Wes Groleau

No, it's not. It's one phase.
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Hi, It's called bi-phase. aka Edison circuit.
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wrote:

Wrong. It's called "split-phase". ...because that's *exactly* what it is. Two-phase is something entirely different (and quite rare).
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On 11/16/2013 11:09 AM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

I agree it is single phase and commonly called "split phase".
I have never heard of bi-phase.
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On Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:09:37 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

180 degrees out of phase and opposite are the same thing. Look at it on an oscilloscope. What the exact method of generating it is doesn't matter. If you have 3 wires entering a box, the relationship between them is what it is, regardless of how it's generated or what you call it.
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On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 09:40:32 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

No it's not. I thought you were an engineer.

Wrong. But you're good at that.
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On 11/16/2013 11:09 AM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

"phase" has a meaning. There's still 2 of them. "split-phase" sounds right too.

I think I've heard about that. Are the phases 90 degrees apart?
The fact that there is this different 2 phase system doesn't prevent the usual one from being 2 phase. That's be like saying you don't have 2 colors of holiday lights if they're just red and green.
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On Sat, 16 Nov 2013 15:09:54 -0600, Mark Lloyd

Yes. From it, any variation or number of phases can be easily generated (efficiently). It's just a little trig and a transformer.

Words mean things. The proper term for the Edison connection is "split-phase". It *is* a single phase that is split by a center-tapped transformer (center grounded).
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On Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:03:52 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

But that isn't what you objected to. You objected to someone saying the two hot legs at the dryer are out of phase by 180 deg with each other. That is true as can be seen on a scope. And when you split something, can you cite an example where after splitting, you still have just one?
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On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 06:00:57 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Get a life Trader. You were wrong then and you're still wrong. Deal with it.

Yes. It's still only one (and it's inverse). Get over your misconceptions.
I really thought you were an engineer. A "sanitation engineer" perhaps?
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On Sunday, November 17, 2013 11:24:31 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

degrees

t



the


Typical. Don't respond to the specific points that go to the issue, just start with the usual insults. A sure sign that you've lost the argument and can't address the points.
Here are some references for you that say exactly what I and Mark Loyd are saying:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power
"A split-phase electricity distribution system is a three-wire single-phase distribution system. It is the AC equivalent of the original Edison three- wire direct current system. Its primary advantage is that it saves conducto r material over a single-ended single-phase system while only requiring sin gle phase on the supply side of the distribution transformer.[1] The two ha lves are 180 degrees apart with respect to center point."
Note the last sentence.
Or this app note on power configurations, which shows and talks in detail about split-phase:
http://www.behlman.com/applications/AC%20basics.pdf
Second diagram down:
"The two legs, represented by Phase A and Phase B are 180 degrees apart. Since they are 180 degrees apart, wiring them together with their relative polarities will result in...."
THAT is exactly what you objected too. A poster made reference to the fact that the two hots of a 240V service differ by 180 degrees in phase. You claimed that they are not 180 deg different in phase, just "opposites". Which is like saying the south pole doesn't differ by 180 deg from the north pole, it's just the "opposite". Any one with any math, science background knows you're wrong here.
Remember how you made a complete ass of yourself not knowing how a 4 wire vs 3 wire oven connection worked? Even as two EE's and an electrician told you that you were wrong. Even as I said just go look at any electric stove installation manual, which you refused to do? Well, here you are again.
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On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 09:39:03 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Typical lies. I've responded to EVERY one of your points but you keep asking the same stupid damned questions, over, and over, and over, and...
You're either incredibly stupid or completely illiterate. Your engineering skills sure suck. You're in management, aren't you?

Slang is often not the real world. Since you believe it is, you're a damned fool (duh!).

You can't even read.
<no point in responding any more. Everything's been said. You're simply too dense to absorb the facts>
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On 11/17/2013 5:57 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Pissing contests are part of Usenet. But, also is trimming text. 265 lines of text to say that you're finished speaking?
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On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 18:18:16 -0500, Stormin Mormon

*YOU* want to play net-nanny? Oh, the irony!
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On 11/17/2013 6:31 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

I'm also on nanny cam, in case it makes my butt look big. But, I do trim text most of the time.
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On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 18:36:17 -0500, Stormin Mormon

The person that took, what fifteen years, to finally learn to not top post? The one who constantly adds off-topic nonsense to threads? You think anyone is going to listen to your net-copping? You're deluded Mormon.
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Maybe he likes hairy bush. You know, when they get all slippery and wet, it is much easier to grab a handful and yank them back towards you. :-)
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