I'm going to have to think about that one - so as to internalize it - but I did understand it as I read it.
BTW, in inspecting the breakers I noticed *this* breaker has no wire connected to it (the top right breaker in the picture):
Am I to conclude that this is an unused "spare" breaker?
I was wrong, and I apologize.
I was shocked when I saw the white neutral wires, and the green ground wires, and the bare copper ground wires, all going to the exact same spot in the main circuit breaker box!
So, green/white/bare, are all the same connection, at the breaker.
This is so counter-intuitive, to me, that it took a while for it to sink in. I apologize for being thick headed. I just never would have thought all three are connected at the same spot!
The gas pipe does have this painted wire connected to it:
That wire heads in the direction of the breaker panel.
I'm not sure I fully understand, but it *does* appear to be as you say:
The top three circuit breakers have HUUUUGE black wires coming out of them: Here's a closeup of the one on the left:
And, here's a closeup of the two on the right:
It looks like the top two actually go into a hole straight behind them:
And, it looks like there is both huge aluminum and huge copper wires in the mix!
Thanks for explaining that. Someday, I'll get the courage to open 'em up, but for now, I'll leave 'em.
BTW, does the bottom left breaker in this picture look like a 220 to you that is not connected to anything? (Is it a 220v spare?)
Also, why is there a single red wire in the top breaker? (All the others had black wires coming out.)
The only red I've seen in the past was for the switched hot wire of a switched lighting circuit.
I noticed there is no red wires going into any of those 2-inch holes:
Realize that even though they are connected together, there is a difference. Current if flowing through the neutral wires on your 120V circuits, throught the neutral bar, and through the neutral to the transformer. Even though the ground wires are tied to the neutral, there should be no current flowing in the ground wires of the house circuit, unless something is malfunctioning. And there will be a little bit of current flowing from the neutral/ground connection to your grounding electrode, but most of the neutral current is flowing back to the transformer on the neutral service cable.
So, while they are connected together, the current flow is from white/neutrals to other white neutrals on the other hot leg/phase, or on the neutral cable back to the transformer.
Yes, some kind electricians leave a spare or two.
I must apologize for repeatedly asserting that they were connected differently!
I was astounded when I followed the wires, for the first time, and saw this:
Just as you said, we have thick wires and thin wires going to the same spot, and some are green, some are white, some are bare copper, and some are huge aluminum wires, some of which are themselves bare while others are white.
So, if I (finally?) understand it, all these (neutral & ground) wires connect at this one point in the breaker panel, and, from there, they go via that big bare copper wire into the ground (probably just below where the water comes in).
They *also* go straight down into the striped neutral wire which is connected to the nearest transformer.
And, since that neutral is hopefully a better ground, *most* of the current in that circuit will go into the striped black neutral wire.
Do I have it right yet?
Note: On purpose, I won't discuss what's happening between the house and the transformer, because I've read every post in the 180-degree inverted argument, and, well, I probably shouldn't have since they all just confused me to no end.
Almost. Except the last part about the service neutral being a better ground. It's not that it's a better ground, it's not a ground at all. It's connected to the center tap of the transformer. Current comes out of one leg of the transformer, it's going back to either the other leg or the neutral/center tap.
Danny D'Amico wrote in news:l6gnva$c7q$ snipped-for-privacy@solani.org:
Yes, that was evident from your first pictures. I meant, follow it the *other* direction to see where the *other* end attaches.
This link has an excellent description:
I don't remember who first provided it here, but it covers the subject well.
What's weird, is that there are very few breakers on this, the main circuit panel. Most of the breakers appear to be for the Generac and not for the house (which HUGE black wires coming out of them).
Notice in this picture of the whole setup:
There are three breakers with HUGE wires (for the generac-switched power, I think).
There are only four "normal" sized breakers, half of which are 220:
But, of those four normal breakers, only the top one of the two
220's on the left appear to be hooked up:And, only one of the 120s on the right, seems to be hooked up:
Can it be normal that there are only two normal-sized breakers for the whole panel?
Note: There are two other panels *inside* the house; but this is the main panel where the power comes inside the house to start with.
Danny D'Amico wrote in news:l6go5u$c7q$ snipped-for-privacy@solani.org:
Which, when you think about it, is a pretty good clue that it's going to be attached to something in the ground....
OK. I understood what you *said*, I really did. But, what I
*thought* I understood was that every third power pole (or so), there was a ground wire that went straight into the ground.I've *seen* this wire with my own eyes (I'll have to go look for some power poles to snap a picture).
I always *thought* that bare wire was the neutral from the transformer (which you said isn't a neutral but I'm saying how I *thought* it was) going into the ground - so that it would complete the circuit to the power company (theoretically).
I *did* read all the posts about what happens between the breaker box and the transformer - but - that part still eludes me. It's my fault though - since it has been explained so, I'll just work on that separately.
Right now, I'm still working on the panel itself, which is a shocker to my pre-conceived (wrong) notions.
Shheesh. All these years, I've been treating them differently, when they're all connected to the exact same damn spot!
I couldn't been killed! :)
I will read that. Thank you.
BTW, what's with the *red* wire here?
How is it any different than the black wires?
Red can be a power wire, it's often the other leg of a
220 VAC circuit.
That's interesting. It must be the case, because that "romex?" cable has four wires in it. (1) a bare ground, (2) a white neutral, (3) a black power, and (4) a red wire, which, if it's a 220V cable, would then be the second power.
It makes sense that the red is merely the second 220V hot leg, as the only other red I've ever seen is a sometimes-hot switched 120V wire to a lamp or three-way switch.
Actually, it was not evident to me in the first pictures, but only because it didn't occur to me where to look.
So, if I follow the bare copper wire, in one direction, it clearly attaches to the neutral bar (along with a host of other ground-like things).
If I follow it in the other direction, that bare copper wire goes straight down into a rectangular hole where a few other wires go.
You can see the bare copper wire going straight down at the right of this picture:
I can't follow that wire any farther, because it seems to be "in" the wall at this point; but I can say that a few feet directly below all this is the water pipe going into the house.
Yeah. I'm pretty sure it must be there but I can't see it.
I stuck my big fat head as far down the hole as my flashlight would allow me to see - but all I see are studs & spiders.
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