2- vs. 3-prong outlets

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Right. Which is why the NEC explicitly disallows that.
The CEC used to recommend filling the third prong. Not anymore.
Install GFCIs, use the "not grounded" stickers that come with them and stick 'em to all of the outlets you've protected with the GFCI.
That's all you need to do.
[Aside from NOT interconnecting grounds on outlets that are on a 2 wire circuit.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Mike Ruskai wrote:

Yea, that's what Bubal would do. It also happens to be really foolish and dangerous. They make those rules because people can get killed.
They still make the old style outlet. You may need to visit an electric supply house to find one. Even medium size cities usually have one. They supply the pros.
If you check to make sure the box is grounded, it may be, then you can use a modern outlet. But PLEASE Suzie, don't listen to Mike, if you are not sure it has a ground, don't take the chance, do it right.
--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:34:19 GMT, Joseph Meehan wrote:

It's neither foolish nor dangerous. It's simply practical, and, as I said, is precisely as safe as using plug adapters, which is what would happen otherwise if a three-prong device needed to be plugged in.
The maximum reasonable paranoia would simply dictate that the outlet be marked as not grounded. Your reaction is completely inappropriate and even laughable.
-- - Mike
Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.
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Mike Ruskai wrote: ....

Whatever, Buba.
I just hope your advice (or actions) never cause someone harm.
--
Joseph E. Meehan

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Mike Ruskai wrote:

Stop by your local fire department and ask them if they think it is paranoia.
--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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Mike Ruskai wrote:

"Precisely as safe", huh? I suppose so....it's "precisely as safe" as some dumbo using an adaptor without establishing that the coverplate screw is grounded and then connecting the adaptor's ground lug to it. Three wire cords and grounded outlets were developed to protect users from internal insulation failures in metal bodied tools and appliances. They wouldn't have made that transition if there wasn't a growing history of electrocutions from those kind of failures.
What you've overlooked is this: Someone (Me for example.) who's taken the trouble to learn and understand why they started making grounded outlets and tools and appliances with ground leads in their cords could be snookered into believing they're "protected" when they're not, fooled by that ungrounded 3-prong outlet you seem to think is no big deal. That's not quite as bad as knowingly locking a door marked "Fire Exit" from the outside, but from my point of view it's in the same vein.
Your responses lead me to the inescapable conclusion that your entire alimentary tract has somehow become reversed...You'd profit from having that condition corrected.
Jeff
<snipped>
--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

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Two prong outlets are sold because you cannot and must not put a three prong receptacle in a box that is not grounded. Yes, what Mike Ruskai posted is completely irresponsible and unacceptable.
Two choices. First, have a friend in any big city mail you the two prong receptacle. They cost well less than $1. They are sold in any Home Depot, Loews, Sears Hardware, etc. Two prong outlets are that commonly available.
Second, install a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter Duplex Receptacle: http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=Products_2/Electrical&MID76&pos=n04 Electrical code specifically lists the second solution - which is also a safer solution. A sticky label, also required by code, is provided warning that ground does not exist. Attach label to GFI faceplate.
Both solutions are acceptable and meet quite specific code requirements. If someone was hurt and insurance company found what Mike Ruskai recommended, then insurance company probably would not compensate or protect you. Then electrical inspector would make a major evaluation of your building causing even more money that must be spent immediately on an electrician. Problems go on and on only because Mike could not even appreciate a simple code requirement. Do not do as Mike has posted. Friends in any city or the GFI are two valid and safe solutions.
Suzie-Q wrote:

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http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=Products_2/Electrical&MID76&pos=n04
Once you install a GFCI outlet on a groundless circuit, you _are_ permitted to install/replace with ordinary three prong outlets downstream of it (the GFCI itself is three prong obviously ;-), provided:
    a) you label them as GFCI-protected without ground      (stickers come with GFCIs for that purpose)     b) do not interconnect the grounds on any of the outlets.
I would not install a ground strap from a 3 wire outlet to the box:
a) it's pointless in most cases (often already accomplished by strap of outlet on a metal box.)
b) May increase risk of ground wire interconnect in multiple outlets (see (b) above) (ie: cable armor).
The ground prong in a groundless circuit is _supposed_ to be completely un-connected. Half-measures make it more dangerous, not less.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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www.graybar.com or www.grainger.com
Both are authorized Leviton distributors. Part# is 223-I
I = Ivory and W = White
No need for the long drive. Both sites have 1-800#s if you have any difficulties ordering online.

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Yes, and most hardware stores will have them, even in small towns.
If your local hardware stores don't have them, try a farm supply store. Or ask at the local Farm Bureau Co-op (they probably won't sell them, but they probably *will* be able to tell you who does).
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wrote:

That's pretty much the situation I'm in as well. My house was built in the early 1920s and the original portion has all 2-prong outlets and an old fusebox. The new 1960s addition has a breaker box on the other side of the house and all 3-prong grounded outlets.
One of these days I'd love to run a new sub-panel to my detached garage/worshop, but it would have to be off the new breaker box and that's a HELL of a long run for wiring. The current power supply is run off the fusebox and there's nothing I can change there without replacing the entire box, which I'll do eventually but it's very low priority.
Wish I had a solution for the problem.
As far as your problem is concerned, you can replace the 2-prong outlet with a GFCI that is designed to be non-grounded, they are available at any home center. They do still make 2-prong but they seem to be pretty hard to come by in some areas.
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