2 knob or 3? wiring?

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On 7/7/2011 9:26 AM, bob haller wrote:

My agent/company didn't even ask. I'm sure most don't.
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Steve Barker
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I'll add my personal experience. Over the years I've purchased 7 homes built between 1880 and 1920. All had active K&T to some extent along with newer wiring. Not only was it no impediment to obtaining insurance, but in not a single instance was I even asked about the type of wiring. Insurance company representatives did come at look at the houses, but in some cases, only the exteriors.
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On Jul 7, 7:35 pm, snipped-for-privacy@sdf.lNoOnSePsAtMar.org (Larry W) wrote:

ultimately i doesnt matter what anyone posts here..........
like my first post said call your local agents and ask i have a home with K&T can you sell me homeowners insurance......??
the big issues are home inspector hassles, and insurance hassles.
incidently some K&T was found on a holmes on homes show. the inspect rebuild house show.
mike holmes said unsafe and it was all ripped out.
even if mike was wrong and the K&T perfectly safe and effective people looking to buy a home will likely pass on any home for sale with K&T.....
since 90% of homebuyers demand a move in ready house with no repairs needed, just having K&T has reduced your shoppers by 90%
note many here like me would be happy to buy a fixer upperbut we are a small select group that doesnt reflect most home buyers nationwide..
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bob haller posted for all of us...

Yeah, he was commenting on the "repairs" to the K&T Also this is Canada.
Also snip your posts...
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Tekkie

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I wonder what percentage of ALL K&T still in use today has never been modified? I bet near all has been modified over the years.
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On 7/11/2011 4:54 PM, bob haller wrote:

Just consult your Ouija board like you have in the past.
"Modified"? Probably not many systems that have not been added to with other wiring.
And K&T is still in the NEC. One of the permitted uses is "extensions of existing installations".
--
bud--


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Well modern electrical systems can have every electrical connection checked by opening a workbox or fixture:)
With K&T there are no boxes to open, open a wall for another reason sometimes you discover a overheated burned electrical connection buried in the wall. where it could easily start a fire.,
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On 7/13/2011 8:17 AM, bob haller wrote:

Instead of pulling this nonsense out of your ass, show some documentation, pictures, etc. of all these "burned electrical connections" from K&T.
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Obviously you havent been around K&T.
Connections were made in walls, with no access after the plaster walls went up.
This introduced 2 HAZARDS........
a connection could overheat and being inaccessible it cant be seen or inspected
the connection may be around something that can burn, like insulation, wood etc....
K&T was a good system when installed, but its aged now.
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On 7/13/2011 3:22 PM, bob haller wrote:

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On 7/13/2011 3:20 PM, RBM wrote:

Geez Roy - what kind of electrician are you that hasn't been around K&T???
I have "been around K&T". I have run across one bad concealed connection. I don't remember any "hacked" K&T. Maybe it is a Pennsylvania thing.

There has to be documentation of all the probably thousands of fires caused by all haller's bad K&T, but haller has a problem with documentation.
Like his link to a report from the "Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development" that says "properly installed and unaltered K&T wiring is not an inherent fire hazard", from an agency that does not "replace K&T at every opportunity", and insulates over K&T. And in haller's own state.
And his link that said "the wires in knob-and-tube are aluminum" which is a problem because copper and aluminum "carry current at slightly different speeds" and "copper into aluminum is where things get tricky - if the water (current) flows faster thru copper than thru aluminum, you are going to get a backup at that junction."
haller does, however, have a very active Ouija board from which he gets a lot of his information. Would a video of the Ouija board in action be OK Roy?
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On 7/14/2011 10:20 AM, bud-- wrote:

My personal belief is that Haller lives on a street with dilapidated old houses where nobody has the funds to upgrade or do proper repairs. In his narrow view of the world, he sees all houses like those around him. Despite the fact that you've pointed out to him 9000 times that K&T is still recognized in the newest NEC,HE CAN'T HEAR YOU.
Yes, as an electrician since 1972, and second generation as well, I've seen K&T a time or two. What interested me most about the stuff, from the first time I came across it, was the very fact that it holds up so much better than many types of wiring that came later. That, and the fact that it was so labor intensive to install,and really was a work of art. In today's world with grounded systems and the labor involved , K&T isn't practical to install, but I've never seen any reason to leave the few outlets connected to it for a lamp or two, which isn't to say that new, additional circuits shouldn't be run to facilitate new equipment. And by the way Bud, how old is your car???
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On 7/14/2011 12:38 PM, RBM wrote:

I'm more interested in how old haller is an whether he has watched Soylent Green.
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54 never saw soylent green or at least dont remember it.....
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On 7/15/2011 10:25 AM, bob haller wrote:

Do you suppose the point has something to do with what Soylent Green is about?????
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i guess i should rent the movie i have zero idea of what its about........
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On 7/15/2011 10:40 AM, bud-- wrote:

I cracked up when I read that. I saw the movie, in the theater way back then. If I had to take a wag at Haller's age based on the stuff he writes, I put him around 80. Of course my 85 year old dad is still working, repairing commercial electric cooking equipment. Dude is sharp as a tack, although he can't remember what he had for breakfast. He just loves what he does, and you can't slow him down.
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On 7/6/2011 10:45 PM, bob haller wrote:

You posted all those links.
A couple were in a google search. "GFCI/AFCI" was number 2 in the search. "Aluminum" was somewhere in the top 10. "Pennsylvania Department" was a link only to that document.
All yours.
Maybe you should read what you post. But then you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension.
Maybe deprogrammng would help that too.
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State Farm Insurance is not the "highest priced company in the world." They do have the highest rate of payout on premiums. So maybe that is what you were referring to. That means that they spend more of each premium dollar to cover the losses of their insureds than any other company in the nation. State Farm is a Mutual Insurer. That means that it is operated for the benefit of it's insureds. It is structured as a mutual benefit association. So unlike a Stock Insurer they do not have to put the interests of their stock holders first as is required of Stock Insurers by settled law in the Henry Ford VS the Dodge Brothers case. My only relationship to State Farm is that of a satisfied member insured. -- Tom Horne
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On 7/14/2011 10:12 PM, Tom Horne wrote:

Cool, thanks for the explanation. Do you have K&T wiring?
LMAO!
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Steve Barker
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