2 Cycle "Gas"

[Ed Pawlowski]

Premium is often ethanol free. Older small engines could not handle ethanol and it could damage the fuel system.

[clare]

Ethanol is MORE of a problem in an unsealed container. (ethanol is hygroscopic - it attracts water) Gasoline in a sealed container needs to be kept cool or it will burst (high vabour pressure) If you want a premix to lat, you keep it in a sealed can in cool conditions, and to be really sure you don;t use ethanol(because it could already have absorbed significant moisture).

If you want gas to go bad really quick, you use ethanol gas, keep it in an unsealed container, and subject it to wildly changing temperatures.

Nowhere did I mention stabilizer/

So - the issues that will cause gasoline to go bad are:

1- oxidation due to being in an open container 2- moisuture from condensation being in an open container with varying temperature 3- ethanol in the gas attracting and absorbing moisture from the air being in a vented container. 4- evaporation of the "light ends" from the fuel The only one that is related to ethanol is the attracting and absorbing water from the air..

Now comes the real fun. The amount of water the ethanol mixture can hold in suspension varies with temperature, so when the temperature fluctuates, and the gas cools with close to the limit of absorbed water in the mix, the water and ethanol "phase separate" from the gasoline, and drop out into the bottom of the tank or container.. The water also has oxygen absorbed it it - which, along with the ethanol (also an oxygenator) causes the fuel to oxydize, forming gum, and also (if in a metal tank) causes corrosion in the tank or container.

If that water/ethanol drops out in the fload bowl of the carburetor, that water and ethanol attack the brass parts of the carb - in particular the jets, which get restricted of blocked with the "greenies" from the oxidation of the copper that is electrolitically stripped from the brass - making the engine difficult or impsiible to start - and making it run poorly if and when it does start.

The lack of "light ends" in the fuel makes it harfer to light and reduces the octane as well as many other desireable properties of the fuel

That is on a 4 stroke engine.

On a 2 stroke another problem rears it's ugly head. The fuel mixture runs through the crankcase to lubricate the 2 stroke engine - and when water is drawn into the crankcase along with the oil/fuel premix (or in place of it if the separated water/ethanol is drawn from the bottom of the tank) the engine parts are not properly lubricated, and the moisture causes corrosion of the engine bearings, frank, and other internal parts. Reduced octane due to evaporative losses is worse on a

2 stroke because the addition of oil to the mix has already significantly reduced the octane of the fuel

Ethanol free gas does not attract as much moisture, and does not drop that moisture out of suspension in such large quantities, so is much less likely to cause any of the above-mentioned problems - and when stored in a sealed container will last significantly longer.

SO - the ideal storage situation is ethanol free mix in a sealed container stored in a constant low temperature situation/

The WORST situation is ethanol gas stored in an open container under fluctuating (and generally higher) temperature conditions.

[clare]

The diesel fuel is only a SMALL fraction of the "energy" required to grow corn. Virtually all the nitrogen fertilizer required (and corn requires a LOT) is made from natural gas.

[clare]

And a lot of more recent "small engines" are NOT "low compression"

[Unquestionably Confused]

The manufacturer's use it in their pre-mix and I was told it was a for the reason that it doesn't have ethanol. In IL all gasoline has ethanol but just over the state line, in Wisconsin, premium gasoline does not have ethanol added.

Not sure what all the higher octane does for the mix, but we damn sure know what ethanol does to small engine parts.

[HerHusband]

I haven't had any issues with my 4-cycle engines, but bad fuel did gum up the carb in my chainsaw. Real pain to fix. Learned my lesson the hard way to add stabilizer to the fuel and run the machines dry if they'll be sitting a long time.

I have also replaced some of my lesser used machines with cordless electric models when possible. I picked up a 56V string trimmer and a 56V leaf blower that work great. No fuel/oil to mix and store, they run quiet, start every time, and work nearly as well as the gas versions for my needs.

Unfortunately, I have too much wood to cut and too big of a yard to go battery power for the chainsaw or mower.

Anthony Watson

[Art Todesco]

Here in western NC, some of the mid-grade gas does not have ethanol, but most does. One station even has a special pump for ethanol free gas.

[html]

[Unquestionably Confused]

Yeah, yeah. I've seen that. Note that the alcohol free gas is predominantly premium octane (as otherwise stated in these posts) and that it's not available in the metro areas.

Less than 100 stations in this entire state (in my small town alone there are >10 gas stations) MIGHT have it on hand, and every one of them seems to be "not exactly 'nowhere' but you can see it from there!"

[gfretwell]

That list is far from inclusive. There may be more stations around Ft Myers that have REC90 than that don't.

[Harry K]

I have been running regular grade gas e10 in all my chainsaws since e10 was inflicted on us. I haven't had one problem and I have saws tha have eaten over a 100 cord. I will usually dump left over gas mix after a month but I did that also before e10

Harry K

[Harry K]

that goes way bback. I knew kids usign premium in 1930s era cars when I was in HS in the 50s. Back then us kids ran any old jumker we could get fired up. "runs better"...bs.

Harry K

[Wade Garrett]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[gfretwell]

Probably more like 60-90 days but the concept is sound. The reality is if the can is full, it is not going to breathe that much. Having a can that is half full or less is a bigger problem.

[Max]

Yup, remember to dump e10 out before 30 days and you'll be fine.

OTOH, e-10 stored in a vented tank, in a humid environment, with daily temperature swings and you're asking for trouble.

[gregz]

Had to have two stihl blowers carb replacement. I think I can buy gas near me, but I have to walk down to the dock on river. Also seems a can get 100 octane avgas ? My huskvarna saw has been sitting with gas for 10 years. Starts righ up.

Greg

[gregz]

I never dumped gas. I usually add fresh gas start if season. I decided to run dry my stihl weeder couple months ago. Ended up breaking the cord. See.

Greg