2 Cycle "Gas"

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I'm not sure what this is properly called, you know, the gas mixed with oil that you use in things like chainsaws.
I'm wondering if it has a "shelf life". Is there a period of time, after it's been mixed, that it's not really good to use any more?
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gas/oil mix

Yes.
I'm pretty sure the oil will remain good, but the gasoline will age. Old gas will evaporate and leave a hardened "shellac"-like verneer on any parts it was be in contact with. This "shellac" must be removed. Also, "old" gas jes doesn't work as well as fresh gas. Gasoline older than a couple months should be replaced, if it hasn't already evaporated.
nb
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....or "pre-mix". I fergot about that one. ;)
nb
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notbob wrote:

But you're wrong notbob . Gas that has had a stabilizer added and has been kept tightly capped will keep for a year or more - depending on temperature variations where it's stored . I just finished off the last of last summer's stores , worked just fine in the generator and Rusty Tractor . The chainsaw/weedeater gas is fresh as of about 3 weeks ago ... until then it was also last summer's gas . One thing - all my gas for portable equipment is non-ethanol , it's bad enough we have to burn that shit in our cars , I will not abuse my small engines that way . Corn should be drunk , not burned .
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To be expected. Hell, I'm only 67.
Gas that has had a stabilizer added......
....is no longer gasoline! It's now gasoline plus stabilizer.

Duh.

I'm so sick of hearing about how "ethanol fuel" ruins engines. It's all a myth.
I ran it in both my vehicles, a Dodge w/ a 318CID V8 and a Honda in-line 4 banger. They both ran better and longer with ethanol. It improved the V8's pre-ignition probs and the Honda had 250K trouble-free miles on it when I sold it and the engine was the only thing still working perfectly.
The problem has been portable gas driven equipment (chain saws, leaf-blowers, weed-eaters), which are jes plain cheaply made junk, anymore.
BTW, ethanol is still in most of today's fuel supplies. In Brazil, the auto petrol is almost pure ethanol.
nb
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On Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 11:07:52 AM UTC-8, notbob wrote:

I have been running regular grade gas e10 in all my chainsaws since e10 was inflicted on us. I haven't had one problem and I have saws tha have eaten over a 100 cord. I will usually dump left over gas mix after a month but I did that also before e10
Harry K
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On 3/13/2016 10:07 AM, Harry K wrote:

Yup, remember to dump e10 out before 30 days and you'll be fine.
OTOH, e-10 stored in a vented tank, in a humid environment, with daily temperature swings and you're asking for trouble.
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wrote:

Probably more like 60-90 days but the concept is sound. The reality is if the can is full, it is not going to breathe that much. Having a can that is half full or less is a bigger problem.
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I never dumped gas. I usually add fresh gas start if season. I decided to run dry my stihl weeder couple months ago. Ended up breaking the cord. See.
Greg
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Had to have two stihl blowers carb replacement. I think I can buy gas near me, but I have to walk down to the dock on river. Also seems a can get 100 octane avgas ? My huskvarna saw has been sitting with gas for 10 years. Starts righ up.
Greg
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On 03/12/2016 10:14 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
[snip]

I seem to remember hearing that the net energy (from ethanol from corn) is negative. Consider all the diesel fuel used for growing it.
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Mark Lloyd
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wrote:

The diesel fuel is only a SMALL fraction of the "energy" required to grow corn. Virtually all the nitrogen fertilizer required (and corn requires a LOT) is made from natural gas.
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On 03/12/2016 08:50 AM, notbob wrote:

I've got a couple of bikes sitting out in the driveway that haven't ran since the end of October. When I put the batteries in, I expect they'll start and run fine like they have every year. Sometimes I use StaBil, sometimes not. The pickup is semi-retired, gets one the road once or twice a year, and it will start too. I honestly can't remember the last time I filled it up.
ymmv, but that's been my experience.
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On 03/12/2016 01:32 PM, rbowman wrote:
[snip]

There's a small-engine repair shop near here, that has a sign on the door telling people to try it with fresh gas first (by 'fresh' they mean less than a month old). I keep gas for up to a year and haven't had any trouble with it.
BTW, it's not wasted after a year. I put it in my truck.
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It's not so much evaporation as oxidation - and both the oil and gasoline will oxidize. It is much worse if moisture is present. If you mix oil and etanol free gas, and put it in a tightly sealed container in a cool location, it will last many months to a few years. Mix ethanol gas with oil and put it into a vented plastic gas gan in your garden shed in the summer, a few months is pushing things.
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You jes put two completely different gasoline mixtures in two completely different vessels/environments. One in plastic, one in ????. One with ethanol (+stablizer?), one not. One "vented", one not. One in "cool" location, one in ¿hot? Summer location. With all those variables, how you settle on the problem being the ethanol is a puzzlement. ;)
nb
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Ethanol is MORE of a problem in an unsealed container. (ethanol is hygroscopic - it attracts water) Gasoline in a sealed container needs to be kept cool or it will burst (high vabour pressure) If you want a premix to lat, you keep it in a sealed can in cool conditions, and to be really sure you don;t use ethanol(because it could already have absorbed significant moisture).
If you want gas to go bad really quick, you use ethanol gas, keep it in an unsealed container, and subject it to wildly changing temperatures.
Nowhere did I mention stabilizer/
So - the issues that will cause gasoline to go bad are: 1- oxidation due to being in an open container 2- moisuture from condensation being in an open container with varying temperature 3- ethanol in the gas attracting and absorbing moisture from the air being in a vented container. 4- evaporation of the "light ends" from the fuel The only one that is related to ethanol is the attracting and absorbing water from the air..
Now comes the real fun. The amount of water the ethanol mixture can hold in suspension varies with temperature, so when the temperature fluctuates, and the gas cools with close to the limit of absorbed water in the mix, the water and ethanol "phase separate" from the gasoline, and drop out into the bottom of the tank or container.. The water also has oxygen absorbed it it - which, along with the ethanol (also an oxygenator) causes the fuel to oxydize, forming gum, and also (if in a metal tank) causes corrosion in the tank or container.
If that water/ethanol drops out in the fload bowl of the carburetor, that water and ethanol attack the brass parts of the carb - in particular the jets, which get restricted of blocked with the "greenies" from the oxidation of the copper that is electrolitically stripped from the brass - making the engine difficult or impsiible to start - and making it run poorly if and when it does start.
The lack of "light ends" in the fuel makes it harfer to light and reduces the octane as well as many other desireable properties of the fuel
That is on a 4 stroke engine.
On a 2 stroke another problem rears it's ugly head. The fuel mixture runs through the crankcase to lubricate the 2 stroke engine - and when water is drawn into the crankcase along with the oil/fuel premix (or in place of it if the separated water/ethanol is drawn from the bottom of the tank) the engine parts are not properly lubricated, and the moisture causes corrosion of the engine bearings, frank, and other internal parts. Reduced octane due to evaporative losses is worse on a 2 stroke because the addition of oil to the mix has already significantly reduced the octane of the fuel
Ethanol free gas does not attract as much moisture, and does not drop that moisture out of suspension in such large quantities, so is much less likely to cause any of the above-mentioned problems - and when stored in a sealed container will last significantly longer.
SO - the ideal storage situation is ethanol free mix in a sealed container stored in a constant low temperature situation/
The WORST situation is ethanol gas stored in an open container under fluctuating (and generally higher) temperature conditions.
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Does this mean if you have a car sat unused for 3 months, then run it on its full tank of fuel, you'll bugger the engine?
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I thought it had a name.
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On 3/12/2016 10:38 AM, SeaNymph wrote:

I add Stabil and it is good for a long time. I replace it after a year or so though. Just dump it into the car gas tank. The little bit of oil diluted by 15 gallons of gas will not harm anything.
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