1" flexible hose with threaded ends?

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Ignoramus23410 wrote:

Reducing inlet restriction will help although you may not get the extra flow you're hoping for if your actual feed supply is limiting...what size spigot/supply line do you have?
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Right now, both inlet and outlet hoses are 5/8" garden hose.
I am planning on going shopping tonight and buying reinforced 1" ID hose for inlet (soft hose may collapse), and reinforced OR regular 1" ID hose for outlet.
The length of the inlet section will be about 4 feet.
The length of the outlet hose will be perhaps 10 feet.
There will be no restrictions on inlet flow. The inlet hose will be in the pool, weighed down by a small piece of concrete, in such way that it will prevent it from "vacuuming" and sticking to some flat surface.
It is located under the slide, in a not so accessible place, so that it would not suck in children's body parts. A concern with a 1" hose.
My main interest here is not even the increased flow -- the current throughput is adequate -- but mainly reducing the load on the motor. It gets quite warm during operation. The extra flow will be merely a bonus.
i
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wrote:

If the pump is flowing more water then it is doing more work, therefore it will be drawing more current leading to a hotter running motor. Use a clamp on ammeter to see what it draws now and also what it draws with the 1" hose installed. I don't gamble much, but I would bet on this one.
Shawn
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<SNIP>

Shawn, if the pump is working against a restriction in the line (5/8" hose in this case,) and is designed for 1" output, then it's sure working hard against that restriction. Opening up the orfice (to what it was more or less designed to do) might well drop the amperage use as it won't have to work as hard to move more water through a less restrictive aperture.....
Bill in Phx.Az.
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Shawn's right on this one, as long as it's a centrifugal or constant head pump. The pressure put up is nearly constant. Work and amps are related to throughput. Look at a pump curve.
This doesn't hold for "positive" displacement pumps. Throughput will be fairly constant, restricting the output will increase the pressure in the pump, and draw more amps. Restrict it enough and you may open a relief, either designed or otherwise.
Pete Keillor
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On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 00:25:11 -0400, Shawn <shawn_75ATcomcastDOTnet> wrote:

Try this exercise. Take a drinking straw and try to breathe through it. You will find it difficult and you will spend much energy getting a little bit of air through.
Then take a 1" ID pipe and try breathing through that.
Your throughput will be much greater but you will work LESS.
Same applies to a pump. Working against restriction wastes energy and reduces flow.
In fact, I installed new hoses, reinforced plastic type, tonight. The flow increased at least twice.
i
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Ignoramus23410 wrote:

Apples and oranges. Your lungs operate as a positive displacement pump. Your water pump is (I will bet) a centrifugal pump. Like a vacuum cleaner.
Try this exercise. Turn on your shop-vac. Listen to the motor pitch. Block the suction. Listen to the motor pitch.
If you measured the current, you would also notice that your vacuum draws less current with the intake blocked. So does your centrifugal water pump. Block the suction side of the pump and listen.
To lots of folks, this characteristic of centrifugal pumps is counterintuitive. But it still is fact, counterintuitive or not.
Dale Scroggins
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: :Apples and oranges. Your lungs operate as a positive displacement pump. : Your water pump is (I will bet) a centrifugal pump. Like a vacuum :cleaner. : :Try this exercise. Turn on your shop-vac. Listen to the motor pitch. :Block the suction. Listen to the motor pitch. : :If you measured the current, you would also notice that your vacuum :draws less current with the intake blocked. So does your centrifugal :water pump. Block the suction side of the pump and listen. : :To lots of folks, this characteristic of centrifugal pumps is :counterintuitive. But it still is fact, counterintuitive or not.
Absolutely! A centrifugal pump is, approximately, a constant pressure device, that pressure being determined by the density of the fluid and the RPM and geometry of the pump. It does minimum work at zero flow (total restriction) and maximum work when the flow is unrestricted and the pump is accelerating large volumes of fluid to the speed of the outer rim of the rotor.
I've burned out the starting relay on a sump pump by operating the pump without sufficient restriction on its output. Reducing the diameter of the discharge line from 1-1/2" to 1-1/4" solved the problem and brought the current draw of the motor down within spec. I also have an old 1/4 HP belt-driven blower taken out of an old home heating furnace. It ran for many years pushing air against the restriction of the ductwork. When run without that restriction as an exhaust blower, the motor couldn't get off the starting winding until I changed the pulleys to reduce the blower RPM.
For a centrifugal pump, more restriction results in less work for the pump.
--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "rnichols42"

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Dale is right. Same principle applies to most air handlers.
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Of course it did-but if it's a centrifugal pump, increasing the outlet restriction (reducing the flow) decreases the horsepower requirement....
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Ya know, you could use a 1" hose and drill holes all over it. I mean a ton of holes, so the hose becomes pretty much a mesh tube. That way you'll protect the inlet, won't have too much suction at any one opening, and it'll eliminate that chunk of concrete. Softer is better! It'll pull most of the water from the end by default, but should anything block that it'll draw through the sides without much effort.
--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4 /
  Click to see the full signature.
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wrote:

That is very good advice. Children have drowned after getting stuck to pump inlets.
- Michael
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I hate to have to say this, but such are the times we live in....
I hope your homeowner's insurance or renter's insurance has healthy liability coverage. You might want to call them and confirm the limits and restrictions on your policy.
- Michael
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I will call my insurance agency right now.
i
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I checked with my insurance agent. They do not have any exclusions for pools. If something unexpectedly happens, we'll be covered. They will fax me a summary of my insurance and will mail me the brochure with the full policy.
I do not expect big trouble tomorrow, because the kids are big enough not to drown in that very shallow pool, the pool is soft and the slide is low. But you are right, it pays to be careful.
i
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Your pump sounds`awful big at 1 HP. I moved lots more water than that with a 1/2 HP shallow well pump. A smaller pump with a bigger hose or more hoses is the way to go. But since you already have the pump, I would use it till it croaks. But I WOULD add a couple of hoses, within limits, the more water the better. Put a manifold on the pump, connect all the hoses to the manifold. Do the same on the suction so you don't starve the pump.
Stretch
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it looks about right for a 1 HP motor, of the modern compact hot running 3450 rpm variety.
It is described here:
http://www.waynepumps.com/prodlist.asp?pcode=PLS100

Yes, I will get a big hose. Maybe even 1.5" (reduced to 1" at inlet) for incoming flow, and 1" for outflow. Will report my results tonight.
i
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wrote:

Here's an idea if you find that a larger (or multiple) hose(s) is/are flowing too much water to the slide: add a T-valve or T-fitting and dump some of the excess flow back to the pool (perhaps make it swirl the pool water). That way, you aren't overworking the pump (by trying to force water through a restricted hose) and you can control how much water goes down the slide.
- Michael
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Good idea. I will buy a T fitting, maybe with a valve. At the maximum flow of 720 GPH, that works out to a gallon every 5 seconds. You can visualize it as a 5 gallon bucket of water emptied onto the slide every 25 seconds. I do not think that the flow will be too much. If my guess is correct, I will return the T fitting back to the store, if you are right, I will avoid trouble tomorrow.
i
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wrote:

Well throw that idea in the trash. From the many well-informed posts on centrifugal pumps, it seems that dumping excess flow back into the pool will simply burn extra electricity (and perhaps your pump). So instead, you should use a valve to regulate the amount of water to the slide.
- Michael
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