1.28 GPF Toilet - Must hold handle down

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I just replaced a 1.6 GPF toilet with a American Standard 1.28 GPF toilet. It received a 5 Star (best) flush rating by using a 2-1/8 trapway and a 3 flush valve.
The first thing I noticed is that in order to get the full flush you have to hold the handle down for a second, otherwise the flapper closes too soon. I haven't had any problems, in fact the short flush seems to work for liquids just fine, but it's a tad inconvenient. My other toilet (1.6) needs just the tiniest push on the handle to start a complete flush.
I called American Standard and they said that that's how they work. Yes, you have to hold the handle down to get the full flush.
Anyway, I was just curious about other 1.28 GPF toilets. Same issue?
The other thing that I was wondering about was whether the small amount of water being used is enough to move things along once they enter the pipe. Doesn't a 20% decrease in water mean a 20% decrease in "flow force"?
Sure, the toilet flushes fine due to the large trapway and valve, but what happens after the stuff leaves the fixture? Is 1.28 gallons enough to keep things moving through the pipe?
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re: "dual flush"
I didn't mean to imply that my toilet was "dual flush".
I can get it to *act* like a dual flush by not holding the handle down long enough, but it's actually a single flush model that needs the handle held down for a second in order to work "properly".
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== Your chain is not adjusted properly...probably too short. ==
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I tried adjusting the chain in both directions to no avail.
That's why I called AS. They said it's supposed to work that way.
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Yep. It's a "save the planet" measure for a #1 flush.
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Thanks for the field report. I'd never have known. I still don't think that's enough water for solids. You may have one of the world's first true "flush twice" models.
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Christopher A. Young
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I'd be thinking chain is too long -- so that the handle doesn't lift the flapper enough.
My best guess is that's not enough water, and the sewer will eventually clog with residues that didn't get moved far enough down the line.
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Christopher A. Young
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On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:07:39 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

You really won't know the answer unless or until you have a problem. A lot depends on drains design. Like what help the flow gets from sinks, baths and washing machines. And the slope and condition of the underground sewer line. I wouldn't worry about that at all until you get a reason to. Tree roots are probably the biggest concern with sewer flow. I had a big maple cut down a couple years ago because it was near my sewer line. That tree also made a big job of cleaning the house gutters every fall. I like trees but don't want them near my sewer line.
--Vic
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wrote:

You clowns should try reading (assuming you know how) the instructions. The whole idea is that the partial flush is for liquids and the full flush is for solids.
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You (clown) should try reading what you are responding to.
Didja miss the post where I specifically said that this is not a dual flush toilet?
As Judy Collins and Frank Sinatra once sang...
"Quick, send in the clowns. Don't bother, they're here."
Well, at least one.
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On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:18:40 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

Yes, I saw where you said that. You are a mistaken clown.
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With the power of the internet available to all that wish to take advantage of its search capabilities, why would you possibly want to make yourself look like such a fool?
Do you do it just for the reaction? Read: Are you nothing more than a troll...with a big red nose, a fuzzy wig and big floppy shoes?
If I must, here's a link to the toilet I installed. Feel free to point out my mistake as it relates to it being a "dual flush" model.
While you're there, do yourself (and us) a favor:
Search the American Standard website for "dual flush" and take note of the completely different product line that is specifically noted as "dual flush".
http://www.americanstandard-us.com/products/productDetail.aspx?id=2135
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On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 13:27:07 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

And what did the manufacturer tell you when you called to ask why your toilet acted the way it acted? They told you it was SUPPOSED to act that way. You were just too stupid to process that information.
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== I like the "boom" of the full flush...at least you know that it is working properly and the bowl is clean. Saving water is important in many areas so I guess these new toilets will be around from now on. An instruction manual might be helpful though for the "old-timers" who haven't adjusted to the new reality of water scarcity. ==
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re: "Does it come with an instruction manual of any sort?"
Installation only.
You know, level it, wax ring, flush the fiill valve, etc. Standard stuff.
The only thing it said about "flushing" was to adjust the chain if it didn't siphon but it siphons even with the "partial" flush.
I was just hoping to get it working like the upstairs toilet where no holding period is required.
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On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 12:22:50 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

Replace the flush valve with a valve that will flush the tank. Some flappers have a small hole in the back to unload the air quickly. These can be made to flush fully with a dab of hot glue over the unloader hole (if it is this type).
--
Mr.E

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You didn't know? Governments like holding periods. Be glad it's not 15 days, like guns.
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Christopher A. Young
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FWIW, I installed 2 Toto's last year after cussing the 1.6's. Toto had the patent on the flush design and was one of the very few manufacturers who had a low flush toilet that actually worked. When their patent ran out about 2 years ago, many manufacturers, including AS, copied the design. Your toilet operates the exact way my Toto's work. Press the handle for 1 sec for liquids and 2-3 sec. for solids. Takes a bit of getting used to from the old ones, but not long. The kicker though is visitors who don't know the secret. You'll hear several flushes and mumbling coming from the bathroom when they use it.
And I've never had a single problem with this design not moving solids down the line. In fact just the opposite from the previous lf units that gave me a lot of problems with that issue.
Red
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Red,
Were your toilets designated as Dual Flush models?
As I pointed to our furry friend Fillet a bit earlier, the AS toilet I installed is not designated as such nor is there anything on their website, in the manual that came with my toilet or on the placard in the store indicating a Dual Flush feature of my model.
AS does indeed carry a line of FloWise Dual Flush toilets with the flush button on top, but that is a different product line than the Cadet 3 flush system and the standard handle of my toilet. The AS Dual Flush models all seem to use 1.6/0.8 GPF and are designated as Dual Flush. I don't see any 1.28 GPF Dual Flush models on their site.
When I called AS Customer Service and asked them if I had to hold the handle down for a second or 2 to flush it, he said yes and made no mention of Dual Flush or of liquids vs. solids.
I gotta stand by my claim that I do not have a Dual Flush toilet, I merely have a toilet where the flap closes too early if you don't hold the handle down. I did find a couple of reviews on the web where the owners made mention of the same issue. It may indeed *act* like Dual Flush, but that doesn't make it a Dual Flush model by design.
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Have you opened the cover and looked to see what happens differently when you hold the lever down for a longer period of time???? That just might give you a clue as to what to do to change the flushing timing
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