Renovating lawn without chemicals

Hi --
I'm a horticulturist in the United States, and I'm interested in converting my lawn to a type of turf that requires less mowing (a mixture of fine and hard fescues). The usual method to accomplish that on this side of the Atlantic is to first kill the existing turf with an application of glyphosate, wait a couple of weeks, and then use a slit seeder to plant the new grass seed right through the dead turf. Howevver, I would like to avoid the use of glyphosate, if possible. I'm wondering if I could simply use a stone burier on the existing turf and then plant right away. Would the buried grass re-emerge to compete with the fescues? Stone buriers are a new kind of technology in the United States and I cannot find anyone who has used them for this purpose. I understand, though, that they have been in use in Britain for some time. Has anyone connected with this forum used a stone burier for lawn renovation?
--
CTTom


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CTTom wrote:

I find it hard to believe that a horticulturist would have to ask if buried grass will re-emerge.
Buried grass WILL re-emerge if you don't kill it, that's just common sense.
Just exactly what do you think a stone burier is going to do differently that would magically prevent the grass from trying to survive?
Me thinks you may be trolling or setting us up for spam about stone buriers... Time will tell.
--
Art

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CTTom wrote:

WTF is a "stone burier" ?
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Lawn Guy wrote:

Is your Google broken? I suspect you just swallowed the hook and asked this "horticulturist" to spam the group.
--
Art

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Art wrote:

No, my google isin't broken - and neither is my usenet.
Is there a new rule that says that you can't ask questions anymore on usenet?

Hmmm. ok.
So where's the spam?
Give me a call when it starts.
Still waiting for an explanation for a stone burier.
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http://www.stoneburier.com /
A machine that is pulled by a tractor. It looks to be about 5 feet wide. Tills up the soil and levels it out. 6 ACTIONS - 1 MACHINE - 1 PASS
Cultivates to a depth of 200mm Buries stones clods, grass and debris. Creates a fine soil surface for accurate seed depth. Levels and finishes the surface. Seeds at exact rates. Finishes by rolling firm.
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Ralph Mowery wrote:

Technically, it doesn't have to be pulled by a tractor, and doesn't have to be 5 feet wide.
The defining characteristic seems to be that it scrapes and pulverizes the first few inches of the soil, sort of like the way a cheese grater works. Quite a bit different than a roto-tiller or disc tiller.
They come in a variety of sizes, from walk behind (or infront) to tractor attached.
Like the scarifier, this is an example of a yard product that is not very common for home or light commercial use in North America, but seems to be more common in the UK.
Seems primarily designed for turf removal for preparing new lawns or garden plots. The term "stone burier" is somewhat odd given what it does and how it operates and the desired result. It would be more appropriate to call it a soil grader or turf planer.
Now tell me where I could find a concise explanation like that on google.
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I have to agree with Art. You are too stupid to use Google. I gave a quick explination that was copied and pasted from their website. YOu did not seem to know what one was and now you want to pick apart the quick explination.
I posted this link at the top of the message I sent:
http://www.stoneburier.com /
I found it on Google along with several videos on the first page.
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Perhaps a similar machine is available in a size that would do a 1/4 acre lawn. The machine shown at the linked wesite seems to be more suited to atheletic fields and golf courses. It looks like the perfect way to spread the seeds and rhizomes of undesirable plants. I had a friend go over my lawn with a "rockhound" that removes rocks, roots, clumps etc. The resulting lawn looked good for 3 years.
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Ralph Mowery full-quoted:

And you are too stupid to realize that I must have used a search engine to post the explanation that I quoted above.

I never said you didn't.

You stated that it was a machine of a certain size and configuration. Technically, that was wrong because these machines come in different sizes and configurations.
So your explanation was incomplete and lacked some important details which I added.

Yes I know, I quoted it in my reply. Why did you feel it was important to tell me this a second time?

Wow - you deserve a gold star for that.
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Lawn Guy wrote:

Then you're just to stupid to do a search?

No, you can ask all the stupid questions you want.
--
Art



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Art wrote:

So you think that someone who's been reading and posting to usenet for over 20 years is stupid when it comes to knowing how to find information?

And you can be a complete asshole and post useless responses all you want.
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Lawn Guy wrote:

It's not about what I think, it's about what you are proving.

Yep.
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Art

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CTTom said:

Lots of weeds would emerge to compete with your fescues as thousands of buried seeds are exposed to light, along with the possibility of some of the undesired grass surviving the process.
I can't imagine why you think it would be better to break up and violently churn your soil than to use what would be a very small amount of a very much targeted chemical.
*Renovating* a lawn without chemicals would involve improving it using top-dressing, overseeding, hand-weeding and organic fertilizers.
You are looking to start from scratch, and trying to choose between methods of destruction.
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"So, it was all a dream."
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use a turf cutter to remove old turf if the ground is good enough then if your left with a load of stones use a stone burier or if not just use a stone raker / standard landscape rake (size permitting) then you could use a seeder roller machine to get a good finish .
--
4x4rob


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Which is one hell of a lot of work and cost compared to applying glyphosate and using a slit seeder. Glyphosate is routinely used on food crops, so I don't see the big deal in using it for a one time lawn renovation.
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to make it abit cheaper then we sometimes just kill the old grass/weeds with spray (gallup 360) wait till it dies off then rotorvate it , rake aera out and re seed if you want a good job on your lawn you really cant try to do it to cheaply
--
4x4rob

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And how much back braking work is it to rake out clumps of dead turf after it's all rototilled into one big mess? Geez, why does everyone want to do it the hard way?

I've re-seeded dozens of lawns by using glyphosate (Roundup), waiting about 2 weeks until it's all dead, then mowing short, raking up the debris, then using a slit seeder to apply the seed. Worked every time, no fuss, no muss.
I can see tilling the whole thing up IF the soil is poor and you want to add amendments. But for a lawn where the existing topsoil is OK, the above procedure is effective, easy, and cheap.
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Bob F said:

Ever buy fresh corn at the grocery store?
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Bob F said:

Are you, yourself, made of plant material? It's a serious question man, not a smart-assed answer. It's all got to do with how glyphosate works. It won't hurt you, unless you're actually a plant. =)
As long as the plants you're growing are "glyphosate-ready" (and there's a shit-load of them available), and you spray on a calm day and/or protect your other crops from overspray, it'd be just fine to use it in your home garden. Pulling weeds from a dense block of corn sucks. It makes it a helluva lot easier.
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