Ornamec to kill tough stuff...Help !

[Heidi the Horrible]

I've never tried to kill crabgrass or bermuda ...I usually just co-exist with most weeds and don't mind them and prefer the weeds to the chemicals. However, this year I have lots of crabgrass and a creeping Bermudagrass problem in my Turf-Type Tall Fescue lawn.

I got some Ornamec and carefully followed directions and spot sprayed the bad areas. Six days later, I haven't noticed any change. I waited for a cool stretch of weather when the grass was not stressed and it stayed dry for 3 days before I watered it. I live in the mid-Atlantic...too hot for ryes and bluegrass but too cool for Bermuda except in summer. TT Tall Fescue is the only real choice here.

What went wrong ?

Did I mess something up ?

Is 6 days not enough ?

Enquiring minds want to know.

HtH

[Eggs Zachtly]

If you prefer not treating the aggressive weeds early, you're going to end up with a "problem" eventually. ;)

It's the wrong time to treat crabgrass. This has been covered many times, here. Search some posts.

See above.

That's part of it.

[Heidi the Horrible]

Thanks Eggs for the reply.

However...my problems don't seem to be as easy as you imply.

When do I treat Bermuda ?

I would assume it has to be actively growing. That doesn't really happen here until June and the plants are already mature...being many years old. The stuff is very strong and actively growing when the fescue is usually stressed. Should I spray in May ? What about Sept when the Fescue is coming back strong and the Bermuda is slowing ?

Also, I have treated my crabgrass with pre-emerge before with success but missed the window this spring. The stuff didn't really germinate in a noticeable way until mid-July and by then it was so hot and dry that I didn't dare spray. I waited 'til I got a cool stretch in mid Aug.

Can I try again when the weather cools with stronger or more frequent dose or should I just give up until next year ?

[Eggs Zachtly]

I wouldn't. If you don't feed the bermuda, and try not to water *too often* in the summer months, when the bermuda is aggressively growing. Fertilize only during cool months. It'll take time, but the bermuda will eventually weaken.

The only fast way I know to get rid of it, in tall fescue, is totally kill the lawn and start over.

No, because if the Bermuda is "slowing" it won't absorb as much of the herbicide as it could, making the chemical less effective. [1]

Why bother? It'll be dead soon enough. Pre-treat in the spring, and don't miss the window. =)

[1] Unless you're going to kill the entire lawn. Then water and fertilize first, to get the Bermuda really going, and absorbing everything it can. Then hit the lawn with a broad spectrum herbicide once, and then again about a month later. Most likely, the Bermuda won't return. Unless you're neighbor is the one with the Bermuda lawn that's wreaking havoc in your neighborhood. ;)

HTH

[Kyle Boatright]

Look up Acclaim Extra and Fusillade herbicides. Both are semi selective and can be used to control bermuda in fescue. The typical treatment is to spray the bermuda once a month with your herbicide of choice starting when the Bermuda starts greening up in the spring, and continuing until the bermuda goes dormant in the fall. Neither herbicide guarantees that it will be 100% effective in controling bermuda, but you can get good results.

Alternately, bermuda is tough stuff, and you might just bite the bullet and spot treat the bermuda until it dies, then re-seed the patches this fall. Sure, it'll look bad for a couple of months, but the problem will be resolved.

With a fescue lawn, your best crabgrass control will be a pre-emergent applied in the spring. Once the seed germinate, it is too late for pre-emergent. If I was you, I'd just try and keep it cut frequently so it doesn't produce seed this year. Next spring, apply the pre-emergent at the appropriate time.

[Heidi the Horrible]

I have crabgrass seed all over the place and I'm just going to let it go this year and pre-emerge it next year.

As for Bermuda, I have killed whole sections of the lawn I inherited and started from scratch. this got rid of the Bermuda. However, there are other sections of old grass than I don't want to completely nuke so I think I will roundup some of the worst spots and occassionally spot treat with Ornamec to see if I can beat it back.

I'll never get the Bermuda totally since all the neighbors and farms have it and I have it already in 30% of my yard.

[Steveo]

You can do that twice next spring 8-10 weeks apart, if you so choose.