Which Carrier gas furnace: Performance 80 or 93 ?

I have to choose between the Carrier Performance 80 and the Carrier Performance 93. My average yearly gas bill comes to $410 for heat and hot water. So there's not much to save. Since the Performance 93 costs an additional $800 for the furnace alone -- chimney and condensate pump extra -- I'm leaning towards the Performance 80. Any comments worth more than a penny? Thanks, Herb
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wrote:

Depending on the climate on is in will depend on the success of a heat pump. Is it a ground source or air source?
If air source and you live in a cold climate the electric strip heaters will come on and reduce the system efficiency over the heating season.
If it is ground source, the expense will be high to install and over its life time one will seldom recoup their investment. For the difference in cost between and ground source heat pump and the forced air high efficiency furnace. If one took the saving of the two units and put it into Whole House Performance the saving would be more than a ground source heat pump could save. And most of the WHP fixes are for the life of the structure, I doubt a heat pump can do this.
Regardless of the heat pump if the house is not efficient the customer may not be happy. I worked in the Dayton Ohio area to 1.5 years doing energy analysis and more people with heat pump (air source) were not happy with them. The ducts were in the slab around the perimeter of the house and the air temp 80 deg F blowing out on a cold day was uncomfortable.
So, make your house efficient then choose the heating source and one will be happy.
Andy Think "Whole House Performance" it is the right thing to do....
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I see you missed this part of the OP's post:
Quote: My average yearly gas bill comes to $410 for heat and hot water.

Will depend on ones utility costs... in a lot of area's, the combination of HP/Electric will still be cheaper to operate then a gas fired furnace.

Once again, it will depend on MANY variables, so your above comment isn't really warranted. It only discourages people from using less energy.

I see many systems where the people are not happy with them... first you need to look at the installation. Don't blame the equipment, till you can understand WHY they are dissatified with their current equipment. No matter whether it's a Heat Pump, Gas Fired Furnace, Boiler, etc...

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big_dgreen had written this in response to http://www.www.thestuccocompany.com/hvac/Re-Which-Carrier-gas-furnace-Performance-80-or-93-31809-.htm : I agree that it varies from installation to installation, electric hp done properly most people seem happy. Ones that think they aren't happy have normally had gas heat in the past and need to realize that a hp is a gradual source of heat, not a turn it on and get 180 degree air heat. Which I'd rather have a gradual cheap heat. Because once it's down to temp it's down to temp no reason to complain.
On a geothermal, in my neck of the woods there are 2 types. Ones that the installer didn't size the ground loop properly on, and the ones that the installer filled the hole in with the same red clay that he took out of it. Point is if you live in my part of the country, southern mountain lands oklahoma. Clay doesn't have the same heat transfer capacity that loose dirt and soil does. Resulting in an expensive pos. I have seen the properly installed units, which around here consist of burying a seperate septic tank filled with fresh water and a ground loop and a float valve. That's a very very very efficient system. Very costly to the 'poor' folk like me.
Maybe you should look at a Dual Fuel Heat Pump, very efficient, and very effective! (i personally believe it's a waste of a heatpump but then again I won't use gas heat)
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Andy You've proven yourself a ludite...
In my neck of the woods, 9500 Heating Degree Days (Mpls, MN) A heat pump is still more efficient than a 93% gas furnace... Above 15dF (That's when you lock it out & let the gas heat the home) Depending on electric rates ($.03-.08), a electric plenum heater can supplement the HP down to 5-10dF & still save over $1.20Therm NG Look at your area BIN date & see how many hour are below the balance point of your HP Of the 8760 hours in a year, we heat roughly 1/2 of those. 4380 hrs. Throw away a few hundred from 60-65 (HDD) & we'll call it 4000 hrs, 3500 if you like. Now look at the BIN data from -30 to -25, -25 to -20, etc... up to 15-20 dF Add those up & you'll have less than 1000 hrs, that leaves 2500 hrs when your air source HP can handle every BTU of your heat loss & do it at a HSPF of 6.0-8.5 (depending on Mfgr) HSPF = COP averaged across the heating season... I'll give you the right to argue the heating season includes the hours we're using supplemental heat, but you have to admit, that even removing those hours leaves a substantial COP (well over 2.5) & a huge savings over your 95% gas furnace.
I've got a 93% variable speed furnace & replaced a 12 SEER A/C w/a 16 SEER 2 stage air source HP. The savings has been over $400.00 in the last year.
If I had the land for a 4 Ton geothermal loop field ($8000.00 - $10,000) I'm sure I could run the place for less that $50.00 a month, yr. round. Not too many years for payback in my book, but I tend to buy a house & stay in is for awhile.
goodluck geothermaljones st.paul,mn.

Depending on the climate on is in will depend on the success of a heat pump. Is it a ground source or air source?
If air source and you live in a cold climate the electric strip heaters will come on and reduce the system efficiency over the heating season.
If it is ground source, the expense will be high to install and over its life time one will seldom recoup their investment. For the difference in cost between and ground source heat pump and the forced air high efficiency furnace. If one took the saving of the two units and put it into Whole House Performance the saving would be more than a ground source heat pump could save. And most of the WHP fixes are for the life of the structure, I doubt a heat pump can do this.
Regardless of the heat pump if the house is not efficient the customer may not be happy. I worked in the Dayton Ohio area to 1.5 years doing energy analysis and more people with heat pump (air source) were not happy with them. The ducts were in the slab around the perimeter of the house and the air temp 80 deg F blowing out on a cold day was uncomfortable.
So, make your house efficient then choose the heating source and one will be happy.
Andy Think "Whole House Performance" it is the right thing to do....
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