To TEV or not to TEV?

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What are your thoughts on adding TEV's to a 2 Ton, A410 heat pump?
If my current situation requires a complete pump out, purge and re-install of refrigerant, would it be advantageous to install TEV's to replace pistons?
My HVAC tech says it is half a dozen of one and six of the other unless the culprit is one of the existing valves.
He says it helps under certain circumstances but also adds one more thing that could go wrong in the future. He said a correctly sized and installed unit should not absolutely require them.
The extra cost at this time would be about $200 for valves and hard start capacitor.
Any comments on TEV's vis-a-vis A410?
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All of the Rheem systems that I install already have TXVs already installed on them. They come that way from the factory, as well as having a new filter/drier included for installation when the refrigerant lines are brazed up. There is a reason that they are a bit more expensive. Then there is also the "conditional unit replacement" warranty on the Rheem Prestege series. You get what you pay for.

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wrote:

Installer added one to liquid line although there was one installed by factory just on the other side of service valve inside the housing.

I've now learned that TXV, crankcase heater, defrost control w/ 30 second switchover delay & anti-short cycle protection, hi-lo pressure lockout, sound blanket and variable speed blower are a MUST have. I am looking to have the defrost control replaced with Lennox 34M63 when the current problems are resolved.
In addition, I might add, a highly qualified and knowledgeable HVAC tech is more important than the make or brand of the heat pump.

So true.
Initial quotes for complete system were in the $6,000 to $8,000 rang for recommended 2 Ton unit (from experience, a 1 1/2 Ton unit would have been a better choice).
I did notice that the higher quotes were accompanied with statement that there was a government rebate program ($1,800) that could apply. (Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Say no more. Say no more.)

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they are correct.... with the passage of Obamas "stimulus" package, that was part of it *if* the system qualifies. It must be a minimum of 16.00SEER, an HSPF of 9.0, and have ECM fan and blower motors.
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Noon-Air wrote:

Usually don't need start kit with Scroll compressors. A TEV/TXV has many advantages over a piston. Best combo, Scroll with a TXV. Many other factors to consider: http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_btuh_duct_sizing_air_conditioning_systems.html
My top hit page. - udarrell
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wrote:

Thanks a lot. I've got some more homeowrk to do.....
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Two hundred bucks? I'd be on that faster than a scalded dog.
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wrote:

That's not a standalone price. I still have to pay for purging and recharging with a bit extra for brazing fittings. This would be viable only if the other stuff becomes necessary.
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So far, it doesn't look like you got such a great deal on the Goodman equipment. For everything else you have spent, and what your fixin to spend, you could have gotten a lot better quality equipment that already has expansion valves, hard start kit already installed, and had the whole job done with no problems, and a full warranty.
But it seems that your bent on re-inventing the wheel, and throwing a whole lot of good money after bad....but its your money, you can do what you want with it.
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The extra cost at this time would be about $200 for valves and hard start capacitor.
Two hundred bucks? I'd be on that faster than a scalded dog.
That's not a standalone price. I still have to pay for purging and recharging with a bit extra for brazing fittings. This would be viable only if the other stuff becomes necessary.
So far, it doesn't look like you got such a great deal on the Goodman equipment. For everything else you have spent, and what your fixin to spend, you could have gotten a lot better quality equipment that already has expansion valves, hard start kit already installed, and had the whole job done with no problems, and a full warranty.
But it seems that your bent on re-inventing the wheel, and throwing a whole lot of good money after bad....but its your money, you can do what you want with it.
He could have bought Goodman equipment with a TXV & with a Copeland Scroll compressor, with a Scroll usually no start-kit is required; I wouldn't have any system any other way. - udarrell
FWIW, most all Rheem 410a equipment...especially heat pumps come from the factory with hard start kits installed. I am assuming that they do this for a reason..
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wrote:

A start kit on a scroll?? Come on Darrell.

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He's right.....
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wrote:

Ok, so are we talking about one of those 2 wire clip on ones or are you talking about a real start kit with a start capacitor and potential relay? Even still, I havent seen any scrolls with them but I can manage a real start kit over those clip ons that do nothing but melt and make a mess in the control panel. Bubba
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wrote:

The Kickstart(tm) has a real potential relay built in.
http://www.kickstartoem.com/faqs/distributor.html
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I carry a couple of those on the truck, but all of the systems I am installing come out of the box with a start cap and a potential relay.
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Jean wrote:

you can argue about this forever, but there is no reason on earth that a properly designed system should ever need a hard start relay added. If you have this problem, then it is the time to demand answers from the manufacturers. They are now liable for lots of product liability. If the compressor needs to start under a normally heavy load, then the compressor start winding should be heftier in design. If enough of you folks dump this back into the laps of the manufacturers, this problem will be addressed and resolved by them. After all, it is their responsibility.
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Actual start cap and potential relay I'll take a pic tomorrow and e-mail it to you
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wrote:

STeve, No need to take a pic. I believe you. I just havent seen them on any equipment around here yet. Bubba
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On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:43:13 -0500, "Old and Grunpy"

That was a worst case scenario from HVAC tech. Unit was factory charged with small extra for line set last Nov.
It ran quite quiet for several months but is now making a lot of noise at startup and during defrost. It may even be slugging according to HVAC guy.

0.057 piston valve kit that was supposed to be installed on indoor coil. New HVAC says nut *might* have been over tightened and piston not operating correctly.
If I remember correctly, these are current values after 20 minutes operation: Hi PR 410/ Lo PR 96 158 F discharge @ 40 ambient.

None. Unit ran quiet and heating was great for several months. It just started to make a lot of noise in the last few weeks and seems to be getting worse day by day. I've locked it out for now until HVAC tech has a chance to diagnose problem.

I'm looking at other work being done. I'm expecting him for at least a half days work as it stands. I found out he lives close by when he came by for an initial basic check and consultation. (Yes - he was paid well for this. I expect to pay good for good work)

TEV = Thermal Expansion Valve - some call them TXV's. I don't know anything about "electronic" ones.
I've read in various places on the internet that R410 units should have TEV/TXV's. Others say not important. I'm curious to know if it is worth while to take this opportunity (should that be the case) to install them.
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I'd say any $200.00 going to a decent HVAC contractor is well spent... You might consider a totally new system if you really want to stimulate the economy... Speaking of stimulus, it would seem you sure have a lot of problems lately... How many homes do you own? Are you sure you really need a tech, or are these guys listed in the yellow pages as the HVAC Escorts? (I won't even mention tool boxes & paying extra for the wrong tools, etc...)
If I were you, I'd wait for the King to weigh in before I made a final decision. Seems the two of you ought to just get a room. When the wife & I argue like that it usually ends memorably... As they say in the Navy, "Fuck Fight, or Shut Off the Light"
geothermaljones
p.s. Nick Pine? Hint, Villanova, Now who's Abby? And is he normally on an island?

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