Refilling completely empty a/c

I recently installed the a/c system from a parts car I had to my daily driver that did not have a/c (from a 1994 Honda Civic LX to a 1993 Civic VX) it was a direct bolt in. All the o-rings and such are in excellent condition. However, due to my lack of experience, I am now unsure how to charge it up. It requires 19.4oz. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks, Timothy
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

You are better off taking it to a garage and letting them do it right....that is if you can find a garage with a competant technician...*cough* who will do you right....You want someone professional....not some slackjaw grease monkey with a set of charging gauges.
Tim.... seriously....it will last longer if you take it to a professional.....the extra money up front will actually save you money in the long run.
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Hi;
This really isnt an auto forum, but since you asked, two things you really must do....Change your reciever dryer. They are about thirty dollars. They absorb all the moisture that entered the system when the lines were open. Do not use a used one. That is like borrowing someones stained underwear. Always replace!!!!
Next, makesure the systems is vacuumed and holds -27 psi for at least thirty minutes. Water boils at around 70 degrees at -27psi. This will help remove any moisture that is in the system. After the thirty minutes, close off the vacuum and wait 5 minutes. if it doesn't hold the neg 27 psi for 5 minutes, then you have a leak somewhere.
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Who in the world fed you with that tit bit of info Komobu? -27psi for 5 mins or 30 mins??? Have you heard of microns? Bubba
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wrote:

First of all, he's confised psi with in Hg. Second, has he heard of Denver, Colorado? Try and pull 27 in Hg vac there, my friend!
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Hi John.... I new as soon as I hit send, I knew someone would bring up Colorado or hi-altitude. All I can say on my behalf, is there is nowhere else in the world like home. And in my home, ie my world, 27 is good!!!! That being said, I humbly submit that the information I posted may work in no-one elses world but my own :-)
I am also mistaken on the -27 PSI; in that it is not referred to as neg psi, but inchs HG. Thanks for keeping me on my toes.
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wrote:

Actually, in automotive, you wont hit microns....and its not even suggested less somethings changed drastically in the last 10 years.
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wrote:

We did it in school all the time on r134a systems.
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wrote:

<begin satire>
FUCK SCHOOL! Just hack it. That's good enough.
500 microns is satisfactory (in most cases); 200 microns is better, and I like to see 50 microns or less. If 50 microns can hold for 20 minutes, under stable ambient temperature, you're good to go. Any water will start to sublime, and pressure will increase. (Dalton's Law).
Another way to check for leaks is put 50 PSIG of N2 in the system, and walk away from it for 12 hours. Compensate for Boyle's law if the goddamn temperature drops overnight. But I use a heated garage or shop. The heat doesn't fluctuate more than 50 dehrees. I swear. Stick it under Paul's collar to heat it is you're in such a big fucking fucking hurry. No one wants to run at a Turtle's pace, anyway, RIGHT?
You know, I've worked for some real kooks (wish they were cooks instead, because I always wanted to ce a chef) in my time, and my PET PEEVE is doing a compressor change in a cold shop in winter. I mean, fucking 40 deg F (or lower) temps INDOORS overnight, on domestic fridges. I could charge to factory weight (using charging glass) wit R12, BUT WE DIDN"T FUCKING USE R12!. Can't check suction at 40 deg F ambient. Headpressure WAAAAAAAAAAY out of specs for cap tube system. And before you go off half-cocked (pun REALLY intended), I'm not talking about split systems, RTU's whether comm or resi.... NO! NONE OF THAT BULLSHIT! I'm talking about self-contained refers, both home and commercial. In someone else's shop. I'm a fucking hack. OK?
You wouldn't believe some of the shit I had to do. That's why I work for MYSELF now. No, the customer IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. SORRY! Walking away is my specialty, and "Fuck you, dude, you're crazy!" is my favorite line of rhetoric.
How does this tie in with HVAC? It's cooling - it's refrigeration. OK? And FUCK YOU if you don't like it.
Oh, GOD... you have no idea what I have gone through (yes you do, if you have been in the field, and especially in apprenticeship, and had to work on home appliances for 20 years, working for stupid jerks who "have no money" to do it right).
I am in a VERY BAD MOOD today. I had a BAD DAY yesterday. And it wasn't even trade (occupation) related. If you want to flame me, or are a troll, then FUCK YOU, and =plonk! I wouldn't ming a bad hair day, for even bad hair pie would alleviate my desparation. A word of advice: Don't piss off your old lady.
Sorry for the anecdote. I was just venting (no pun intended). I know I need to chill (pun intended).
Today, I go through totally unrelated issues. I am getting set up with voc/rehab, and getting into arts, and maybe even computers, although I already know a little bit about computers (do I really?).
School is good. You should try it sometime, you fucking hacks!
And Bill Surber has my permission to flame me, along with Paul Milligan.
I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!!!
I'm having a good day, actually, too. So, if I want to make a fool of myself in the newsgroups, It's none of your fucking business. Just ignore/filter me. I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!
If I have helped you, then help me keep coming to you, by writing your name on the back of a $20 bill or on a money order, and postal mailing it to me.
Have a nice day.
<end satire>
--
-john
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[original post is likely clipped to save bandwidth]
wrote:

duh, the gauge can be calibrated in furlongs and work just as well ;)
First, vacuum should be absolute, not gauge so altitude means squat.
It just happens that most decent vacuum gauges are calibrated in microns. _Usually_ PSI means someone is using a service gauge set, not a well calibrated vacuum gauge.
gerry
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Hi Bubba,
I haven't heard of microns, other than I can figure they are probably small. I know automotive systems pretty well, but probably not on par with your knowledge. I stand by my statement of vacuuming for thirty minutes to remove moisture in an automotive system. And that the system should hold that vacuum for at least five minutes. If there is any leaks in the system, you will see the vacuum drop before the five minutes. As for the neg27 psi, as was pointed out, I acknowledge I should have wrote 27 inches hg.
If you care to post anything else on microns, I would be interested in learning about them and how they relate to the HVAC industry. After this post I will try to do a google search on them. Have a great day and thanks for taking the time to post. I really enjoy learning from you guys.
Pat
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Pat, Whatever works for you I guess,.......go with it. Just wanted to make sure you werent getting hung up on any of those "old rules" or that "rule of thumb" bull. We have a few too, like triple evacuation with nitrogen purging!!??? I personally see no need for this with todays high efficiency two stage vacuum pumps. That being said, I just ran across another stupid tid bit put out by Carlyse. I changed out a 5 ton scroll compressor in a 7 year old Bryant condenser. Right there in plain black and white from Carlyse instruction sheet it said to just make sure you pull a vacuum to 1000 microns!??? Some things just never cease to amaze me. :-) Bubba
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One HVAC guy I talked to tells me he was talking to an EPA guy. Mentioned that he had a vac pump that would draw to 50 microns. He said the EPA guy said that was not good enough. That in a couple years, by law, all vacuum pumps would draw to 1,000 microns.
Dunno how true it is, but good for a smile.
--

Christopher A. Young
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I prefer nanometers. Of course, that's on Earth. On Ork, they use nano-nano-meters, and apply bubble solution with a dauber after spraying with Pam. Then we replace the Mork fittings if they leak.
--
-john
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If I had Pam, I"d spread her every chance I got!
--
Respectfully, Bob

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Bubba wrote:

Conducted a search and this is what I found on microns. Thanks for educating me on them. I can see where the micron guage would be useful if it can tell you how much moisture is in a system. I have never seen these used in the automotive arena, but perhaps they should be.
Don't Forget Your Micron Gauge.
Pulling a good vacuum before charging a new system with refrigerant or after a repair is essential for the proper operation of an air conditioning system. Proper operation, its longevity, and the time you spend at the jobsite all relate to dollars in your pocket. In addition to the vacuum pump, a micron gauge is an essential tool. Below is a description of how the gauge works and why it is used in the HVAC industry.
Preventing Problems A typical micron gauge. A micron gauge measures the amount of air or "noncondensables" and moisture in a system. The unit of measurement used is a "micron." The gauge is placed between the vacuum pump and the middle port of your manifold set. The lower the micron reading, the deeper the vacuum. The deeper the vacuum, the lower the amount of air and moisture in any given system. Why is this tool necessary? It can help you prevent problems like the following.
Potential Problem #1 If moisture is left in the system, some of it will turn to ice when refrigerant is introduced into the system. If enough moisture is left, larger ice particles will form and can block the cap tube or piston, causing a restriction in the metering device.
Potential Problem #2 If moisture and air are left in the system, they can form acids when combined with chlorine (which comes from CFC or HCFC refrigerants such as R-12 and R-22) and oils (from the compressor). Over time, these acids eat away at the compressor's motor windings and cause premature compressor failure.
Potential Problem #3 If moisture and air are left in the system, they can cause higher than normal head pressures. These pressures can mislead a technician and cause higher discharge valve temperatures, which again can cause premature compressor failure.
Potential Problem #4 If a micron gauge is not used, a small leak will never be detected using conventional gauges. Conventional gauges use inches of mercury (Hg) to measure vacuum. Most gauges go down to 30 inches of Hg. If one inch of Hg (at 32 degrees F) is approximately equal to 25,400 microns of Hg (at 32 degrees F), you can see how much more accurate using the micron gauge tool can be. It is recommended pulling new systems down to 400 microns or even less if time allows. If a leak is left in the system, first you will experience indoor coil freeze-up, then no cooling and/or compressor damage.
Money in Your Pocket Taking the time to use a micron gauge to check for these potential problems is not only a preventive measure, it can also benefit your reputation as a contractor. Most micron gauges can be purchased for $100-$400 depending on the model - a small investment up front that can save you a lot of money in the long run.
Two More Things But you're not done yet. Two other practices are recommended in conjunction with using a micron gauge.
The first is purging the system one to three times with nitrogen before the pump-down. The nitrogen absorbs moisture and can be released into the atmosphere without any harm. This reduces the start-up time even more.
The second is changing the oil in your vacuum pump regularly. Vacuum pump manufacturers suggest changing it after every use. If the vacuum pump oil becomes cloudy or saturated with moisture, it will reduce pump efficiency and thus increase the time you are at the jobsite.
As you have read, pulling a good vacuum before charging is essential for many reasons. Yet these reasons boil down to money in your pocket. Those who use micron gauges and practice good pump-down techniques know this. Unfortunately, those who don't will eventually learn the hard way.
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