Radiant Cooling with Liquid Nitrogen

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On 12/24/2010 2:17 PM, Sum Ting Wong wrote:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ******************************* The point on top of your head. :-)
TDD
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On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 22:46:36 -0600, The Daring Dufas

You are still in the dark as to who GLT is?
Wow. You are one lazy fuck.
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In sci.physics Sum Ting Wong

Nope, it usually takes a rather high temperature, but nitrogen will oxidizes.
Ever heard of "smog"?
--
Jim Pennino

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<...>
I don't think you can "suck" IR in the way you picture. At best, you can fail to reflect it. The Earth cools at night due to radiation into space.

No such thing. There is no "cold ray". AFAIK
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On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 16:33:56 -0800 (PST), Edward Green

_PART_ of Earth's atmosphere and a very thin PART of its surface cools a LITTLE bit at night.
It *FEELS* like a lot to us wimpy mammals.
You said: "Gives it up to space..."
Does space conduct?
I'd say that our atmosphere conducts heat back into the sea more than to space... at night, when not being heated by the sun in one way or another.
Is the dark side of Venus "cooler" than the sun side because of "giving up heat to space" or because or lack of *heat influx* from the Sun?
Is Earth not at its happy point for us critters that dwell upon its steadily more and more rancid surface?
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On Dec 24, 7:45pm, Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers

Sure. It conducts IR right finely.

Both, I'd say.

If you consider everything between Antarctica in winter and Alabama in summer "happy".
BTW, since I've discovered alt.hvac (I'm posting from sci.physics), I had this idea I'd like to see shot down: AC in the summer by freezing large underground ponds in the winter, circulating chilled water through them in the summer. Advantages: offset electric load by season, and also have AC which leaks _cold_, rather than the conventional type which leaks only heat into the ambient environment. Great for urban heat islands (though there would be a problem with real estate to put in the pond).
Shall I start a new thread to be properly thrashed? ;-)
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On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 18:48:13 -0800 (PST), Edward Green

That plays perfectly into my 'total solution'.
First off, we can use the heat in the heart of a salt dome to preheat water used to make steam for power generation. We should also use tides all over the place to do small amounts of pumping work to a larger kinetic vessel high above for on-demand generation use.
On your side of things (cold), I want to make HUGE covered (sealed) reservoirs at about 20 above and below the equator (perhaps 25) which we ONLY fill with ice and water from the polar glacial deposits. We could in fact make a huge inclined track for sliding them down here from up there. (big blocks of ice). We really need to do this weather anyone even thinks it possible or not. God took the time to collect nice, fresh water at the poles for us, and the least we could do with the brains he also gave us is manage it better. Unless we are going to build an 30 kilometer mountain of ice at each pole (I would do both actually).
Maybe we could actually lower ocean depths, and recover the old land bridge ocean shelf components of our continents.
Hell with rising oceans! Let's make 'em DROP! We could even send some ice to the moon!
Send all death row prisoners into the sun once every year.
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writes:

A better comparison may be the Moon, not the Earth. Without the insulation of an atmosphere, the difference between the sunlit and dark portions are several hundred degrees C. Even though there is a long time (~14 days) to cool off, I think it reaches close to the final temp. quite quickly.
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On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 04:21:36 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote:

Yer nuts. The same side is always lit. The same side of the Moon always faces the Sun, and when you see a Cresent Moon, you are looking at part of the side that is never lit.
One can always tell where the Sun is at by looking at the Moon.
The only thing that ever blocks the lit side of the Moon is the Earth. And then, only occasionally. (Like the other day)
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 09:43:28 -0800 (PST), GreenXenon

Because it won't work!
John
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 09:58:44 -0800, John Larkin

    But ...but ... besides that ??? :-)
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On Dec 22, 11:18am, .p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:

May be millions to insure that, if even possible. Raining liquid nitrogen (pipe burse) is no joke.
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wrote:

You spelled reigning wong. :-)
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I guess you never plan on selling those houses.
Buyer: You have a liquid nitrogen what? How much would it costs to tear it down. I need $10,000 credits just in case.
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Hi:
Thanks a bunch,
Green Xenon
________________________________
Please don't feed the trolls.
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On 12/22/2010 09:43 AM, GreenXenon wrote:

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/4799702/2/istockphoto_4799702-glowing-ceramic-stove-top.jpg
We live our lives in an ambient temperature of around 330K. A heating coil that's glowing orange is at about 930K -- that's a 600K difference. A cooling coil can go no lower than 0K -- that's only a 330K difference, or half of what you can easily attain with a hunk of wire and some electrical power (or a burning piece of a tree).
An object that's hotter than ambient will enjoy a local humidity that's lower than the surrounding air, driving any water and other materials -out- of the coil. An object that's much cooler than ambient will enjoy a local humidity that's much higher than surrounding air. If you actually managed to get a coil down to LN2 temperatures, and exposed it to the air, it would become coated with water ice. If it weren't coated with water ice, it'd get dry ice on it. If it didn't get dry ice on it, oxygen would condense on the surface.
We haven't even started on the basic thermodynamic inefficiencies involved in trying to cool an area by making heat flow across such huge gradients -- but they're there, and they're big, and unlike heating, where all such heat flow just generates more heat and helps you, here all such heat flow just generates more heat and hurts you.
So sure -- expensive to build, low performance, inconvenient to operate, hugely wasteful to run. Other than that, it should be a snap.
--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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In this theoretical device, the coil is in a vacuum and not exposed to any air. Just like the coils here: http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/4799702/2/istockphoto_4799702-glowing-ceramic-stove-top.jpg&usg=AFQjCNEPajq12m-kBo711LFpifSSXK0Lxg
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wrote:

In this theoretical device, the coil is in a vacuum and not exposed to any air. Just like the coils here: http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/4799702/2/istockphoto_4799702-glowing-ceramic-stove-top.jpg&usg QjCNEPajq12m-kBo711LFpifSSXK0Lxg
---------------------------------------------------
You will still have the problem of the coil envelope being below dew point.... What are you going to do with the ice/condensate??.... unless you *want* it to rain in the space.
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On 12/22/2010 12:51 PM, Steve wrote:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/4799702/2/istockphoto_4799702-glowing-ceramic-stove-top.jpg&usg QjCNEPajq12m-kBo711LFpifSSXK0Lxg
If you put an IR-clear window between the coil and the rest of the room, and if the window gets heated faster than it gets cooled (ya, sure), and if it never gets stuck in thermal runaway because of condensation that both insulates and radiates IR, then it would work -- for even more $$.
--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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wrote:

    This is starting to sound like it needs a Congressional Appropriation for further study.
    Under TARP and other stimuli funds, I'm sure it can be arranged, too.
    
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