R22 pricing

Just listening to the radio, this AM. Aparently, Obama seems to think he has the freedom to order insurance companies to pay for "free" contraception and abortions.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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The freedom of law enforcement to strip search people boarding planes. Freedom from troublesome habeas corpus laws. The freedom of government to spy on citizens. Freedom to allow the military to act inside US borders. The freedom of banks to ignore reserve rules, own stocks, broker stocks - the list of bank freedoms is too extensive to list. The freedom of foreigners to own domestic media without restriction.

Yeah boy - we are swimming in new freedoms these days.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon
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I am sure most would not like to be strip searched, but if I have to choose between persons being stripped searched or being blown up I prefer the former.

I wonder if those ideas were in place at the time, the World Trade Centre would still be standing?

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I have been delayed several time for long periods because of security before boarding planes and although it is a nuisance, it is better than having some idiot walking around with a bomb or a machine gun on the plane.

I think the 'freedom' of all the passengers living over rides the 'freedom' of one not being searched.

Reply to
<ramrod

I am sure most would not like to be strip searched, but if I have to choose between persons being stripped searched or being blown up I prefer the former.

CY: It's a false choice. The third option is profiling, which can be highly effective. At present, my perception is that the TSA spends a lot of energy on little kids, and blue haired old ladies. And mostly waves Arabic Muslim types through.

I wonder if those ideas were in place at the time, the World Trade Centre would still be standing?

CY: Probably not, becuase of sensetivity and prohibiting profiling. The Mussies would have run a bunch of clean guys through, and used up all the maximum profile uses for the flight. Remember the "lets roll" flight that crashed? Suppose a couple of the good citizens had been carrying personally owned guns, with plane safe ammo. No more terrs.

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I have been delayed several time for long periods because of security before boarding planes and although it is a nuisance, it is better than having some idiot walking around with a bomb or a machine gun on the plane.

CY: Of course, yours is a false choice.

I think the 'freedom' of all the passengers living over rides the 'freedom' of one not being searched.

CY: That's a good subject, comrade. Thank you for being a good subject.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

In the early days of the USA, I remember hearing that the Holy Bible was exensively used as a text book.

A couple decade ago, there was a big to do about "student led" prayer groups, and meetings. IIRC, they were ruled to be legal.

What's the status, now? I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing most schools prohibit anything Christian, but promote Muslim sensetivity. Such as this:

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where kids are compelled to study Muslim doctrine, and take on Muslim names during class.

Of course, we have a Muslim President. That explains a bit.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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You mention 'prayer in schools' and 'religion in schools', well IMHO it is not something that should be forced on children. That would not be a freedom.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Sorry yours is a false choice.

OK so you have your choice and be blown up. Mind you do not expect 72 virgins to be waiting for you...............

Reply to
<ramrod

Thank goodness those days are gone, if they ever were in fact ever there.

Actually ruled to be illegal

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In the United States, public schools are banned from conducting religious observances such as prayer. The legal basis for this prohibition is the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which requires that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

The first part of the above amendment which reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" is known as the Establishment Clause, while the second part ("or prohibiting the free exercise thereof") is known as the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. Though each of these clauses originally applied only to the central US government, the Fourteenth Amendment extended the scope of the entire First Amendment to all levels of government, including the state level[1]?thus compelling states and their subject schools to adopt an equally detached approach to religion in schools.\\

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//Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe, 530 U.S. 290 (2000), was a case heard before the United States Supreme Court. It ruled that a policy permitting student-led, student-initiated prayer at high school football games violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. Oral arguments were heard March 29, 2000. The court announced its decision on June 19, holding the policy unconstitutional in a 6-3 decision. School prayer is a controversial topic in American jurisprudence.\\

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The constitution speaks of religion, not does not allow one and stop another.

17 Jan/2012

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//The Supreme Court passed up the chance on Tuesday to hear controversial new cases about prayers before public government meetings and punishing students for Internet parodies or attacks made on computers at home.

The high court rejected appeals by local government and school district officials who argued that opening their meetings with prayers did not violate the constitutional requirement on church-state separation.

In one case, the justices let stand a U.S. appeals court ruling that predominately Christian prayers at the start of local Forsyth County commission meetings in North Carolina violated the constitutional prohibition on government endorsement of a particular religion.\\

So it seems that students can pray by themselves, but religion and prayer cannot be forced on all and sundry in groups.

That is what I would call freedom.

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Please prove please, as that everything I see says he is a Christian.

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//Though Obama is a practicing Christian,[3] and he was chiefly raised by his mother and her parents who were Christians, both his father Barack Obama, Sr. with whom he lived only as a baby, and his stepfather Lolo Soetoro with whom he lived during his early childhood were nominally Muslims. This familial connection to Islam, among other things, is the basis of a common claim lodged by conspiracy theorists that Obama secretly practices Islam.\\

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//Barack Obama is stepping up his effort to correct the misconception that he's a Muslim now that the presidential campaign has hit the Bible Belt

At a rally to kick off a weeklong campaign for the South Carolina primary, Obama tried to set the record straight from an attack circulating widely on the Internet that is designed to play into prejudices against Muslims and fears of terrorism.

"I've been to the same church _ the same Christian church _ for almost 20 years," Obama said, stressing the word Christian and drawing cheers from the faithful in reply. "I was sworn in with my hand on the family Bible. Whenever I'm in the United States Senate, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. So if you get some silly e-mail ... send it back to whoever sent it and tell them this is all crazy. Educate."\\

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Reply to
<ramrod

Been awhile since my Dad mentioned this to me. He's got a friend who grew up in Africa, so he checks "Afro American" on the box. He's white, blonde hair, blue eyes. But, he did grow up in Africa.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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It's not a matter of offense as far as I'm concerned but a matter of silliness. I was with a friend who is from Kenya and we were sitting in a restaurant when a cute little waitress came by to take our food order and my friend has a distinct Kenyan accent which had the waitress asking where my friend was from. He told her he was from Kenya a country in Africa. The waitress thought it was cool to meet an "African American African". o_O

TDD

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I know several South Africans who are as Caucasian as can be. They're of English and Dutch ancestry. ^_^

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

Given the problems abortion causes with the religiously afflicted, I'd say contraception is one of the things he got right.

Better to have families living in poverty or contracting aids? That makes a lot of sense to you?

I can't help but think that realistic (pragmatic) education (as opposed to religious indoctrination) and free access to cheap contraceptives, morning after pills, etc., is better than abortion - for women, men and society.

But as a last resort, abortion should remain accessible and YES paid for with tax money when people can't afford the cost.

Inevitably, we taxpayers bear the brunt of the cost of raising, educating, and incarcerating the mistakes, and that is bound to be lots more expensive.

"Jesus was a really cool dude, with a really bad fan club."

Reply to
default

I keep confusing virgins with trombones...

What is in it for the virgins?

Don't they know that the only virgins they are likely to find are pimple faced teenaged males getting a degree in computer science?

Reply to
default

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find Henry Kissinger wrote it - defines his beliefs to a "T."

There are no liberal politicians there are no conservative politicians there are just authoritarian politicians. Bush was "conservative?" in whose imagination? Clinton was a liberal? Just fancy words to hide the truth...

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Those are just labels the sociopath criminals who run for office use to fool the sheep.

Reply to
default

Covering contraception is far cheaper than covering a birth. Insurance companies will willing make that choice. It is a no brainer, no doubt why you can't grok it.

j

Reply to
j

The point is that many Americans, birth control and abortion are against thier religious beliefs. The bill as written, would command Americans to perform offensive sins. The USA should not be requiring honest religious people to do what they find to be immoral.

Was that clear enough to be understood?

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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Covering contraception is far cheaper than covering a birth. Insurance companies will willing make that choice. It is a no brainer, no doubt why you can't grok it.

j
Reply to
Stormin Mormon

No

I mean if persons are given free contraceptives, no one says the have to use them so what is immoral?

So what exactly does the bill say that would make people to 'sin'?

It is rather interesting that the Catholic Church forbids the use of contraceptives, yet in one survey it said that in the US 98% of Catholic women have used them.

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Now this may or may not be accurate, but the fact that most women these days do not have 10 or more children like not that many years ago shows many must use birth control and the rhythm method is not supposed to be all that good.

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//To be sure, the number of people choosing natural family planning still remains small. According to a 1995 survey conducted by the National Center for Health Statistics, only 1.5% of women aged 15-44 reported using periodic abstinence as a means of contraception\\

Reply to
<ramrod
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No

I mean if persons are given free contraceptives, no one says the have to use them so what is immoral?

CY: Persons (and churches, and people who have religious beliefs) would be forced to pay for contraception for others. For example, the Catholic church would be mandated to pay for contraception for people when the Catholic church opposes contraception.

So what exactly does the bill say that would make people to 'sin'?

CY: The bill says that all insurance providers (including the Catholics who believe birth control is a sin) must provide birth control. "free", meaning that the employer pays for the birth control used by the employees.

It is rather interesting that the Catholic Church forbids the use of contraceptives, yet in one survey it said that in the US 98% of Catholic women have used them.

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CY: If 98% of people rob banks, does that make it legal?

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Everyone (probably all animals) is (are) capable of thought

Learning and change are harder. Many people are already overloaded with the complexities of civilization and satisfying their wants and needs without the luxury of philosophical thought.

People are most willing to believe whatever makes them feel most secure (or smart, superior, moral, ethical, etc.). The opposite corollary; people avoid believing they have faults)

But people are interesting. No two people have the same perspective and everyone can enrich my life and teach me something.

The world has a lot of problems, but I can't help but think that it would be totally insufferable (bland and boring) if all people agreed on everything.

I know... With all the circus and bullshit they go through to get on the ballet, none of them can be honest about anything. None of those jokers have any idea how to fix what George Bush has wrought, so they retreat to inane arguments trying to prove their morality - and with the evangelical nuts they play to, that invariably means women's health issues.

Obama's got a lot of faults, but compared to the best the "conservatives" have to offer, he looks very good indeed. (Ron Paul excepted).

Everyone says change is necessary, but the politicians are living quite well on the system they have contrived. Whenever one of their members starts to sound serious about change they brand him a loose cannon or "too radical."

Reply to
default

As usual J, you are an idiot! The point being made is that the President does not have dictatorial powers. He should be removed violently for his many misuses of Executive orders and his lack of a traceable track record. The SOB thinks he is God.

Reply to
PaxPerPoten

The person has free choice. They can have as many children as they want. No one says that they have to use any form of contraception.

If their employer says they shouldn't use any form of contraception, they have the right to say no. In fact most Catholics use some form of contraception. The days of huge families, because most kids die from lack of health care is over, except among some conservative groups.

What you think is that an employer has the right to force their out of the mainstream values on an employee.

Not enough for you to understand.

But then, you are probably wearing magical underwear and think the word of God was read from a tea cup.

And you think I'm the whacko!

j

Reply to
j

Some wise old sage wrote "sex sells".

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I am forced to pay toward religious schools which I consider wrong.

All children should go to Government schools and I should not have to pay for children to be brain washed at religious schools.

Reply to
<ramrod

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