Need recommendation about new Trane system for Atlanta area.

I live in metro Atlanta and I'm looking at replacing my 22 yr old Trane 2-zone system (both ACs and Furnaces). Got a quote today for Trane systems, and I wonder if it looks reasonable. They are for Trane 13 Seer systems, along with variable speed furnaces (he didn't feel the price differential to 15 Seer justified the potential savings).
Thee units are 2TTR30324A/TUD060R9V3K4 (downstairs zone) and 2TTR3030A/TUD060R9V3K4 (upstairs zone).
The price per zone were $5808 and $6571 . Then I get a $1000 rebate from the company (not from Trane - those expired in June).
He also recommends the old R22 refrigerant instead of R410A. I can get the R410A for $343 additional per unit, but he has seen lots of problem with R410A due to excessive head pressure.
The guy seemed pretty knowledgeable, and wasn't pressing me for upgrades, or add ons.
Do you think the quotes are reasonable?
What about his recommendation for R22 vs. R410A? Has anyone heard about problems with R410A? And will R22 be available for the foreseeable future?
Thanks.
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Its not about what "he" thinks, its about what *YOU* think. What are your expectations?? do you have other issues that need to be addressed?? Got hot or cold rooms?? noise issues?? indoor air quality issues?? Did he tell you about the federal income tax credit for 15SEER or above systems??

Price should not be the primary factor, and yes *EVERYTHING* is a lot higher priced than it used to be... even what it was just a couple of months ago. The deciding factors should be top quality installation, of top quality equipment, by a *competent*, licensed, insured, professionally trained, master hvac technician. Those prices he quoted you are quite low, and then take a grand off that?? I would ask for pics and/or referals(names and contact numbers) of some of his customers where he has installed new systems over the last several years.

Sounds like your "tech" needs to get some more training. There have been a lot of discussions on here about R22/R410a. Here is a link to the EPA HCFC Phaseout schedule; http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phaseout/hcfc.html FWIW, I have not even offered R-22 systems for the last year. There is no point and it would be a gross dis-service to my customers. Rheem/RUUD will stop manufacturing all R-22 systems in December this year.

I would get a couple of other quotes

nope... see above

He needs to get with the program.

I have only had a problem with 1 of the many R-410a systems I have installed. It had a leaky evap coil.

No.... see the EPA phase-out schedule..... and what little there might be left, will command a premium price.

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Leaves you out noonie. The more you post the better we see what a shyster you are.

You aren't getting the job. Why are you blowing smoke up his ass?

You haven't a clue noonie. The new refrigerants all have a major issue. The POE oil. The industry knows it and they are looking for alternatives. If you did something besides pull info out of your crack you would know something about it.

Who you? lol

You sell new systems for a bad TXV. I'm sure he'd value your advice.

You need to shut the FU. He's stone cold correct.

Many noonie? lol

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phaseout/22phaseout.html Yes. 2020. 2010 for new equipment. noonie just why do you post the dribble you post? Trolling for customers or fine tuning your line of bullshit? You're a mediocre to average residential air conditioning tech with substandard business skills and delusions of grandeur.
You and stormy are very similar. But at least he doesn't pretend to be the expert.
--
http://michellemalkin.com /

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Well, I don't have a lot of issues with my old 22+ year system. The bonus room over the garage tends to be a little warm in the summer and cool in the winter, but not too bad. It's just I think I got enough life out of them, and one of the A/Cs is getting cranky over the last week.
So I know with even a 13 Seer, I'll should see significant improvement in both cooling and heating efficiency. It didn't seem to be worth spending the extra $1565 per unit to go with 15 Seer (and the adverised 9% efficiency improvement over 13 Seer). I had intended in going with R410A, but he seemed to downplay it. But maybe the extra $343/unit is worth it. Maybe he was just tryning to keep the prices lower. I already knew about the $300 tax credit, but with a $3130 price differential, it didn't seem worth it.
Coolray has been around metro Atlanta for a while, and I've heard good things about them. The $1000 off was Coolray and Atlanta Gas Light rebates (I think). But I'll talk to a few more before I take the leap. I'm getting another Trane installer here today, and an American Standard (same as Trane???) tomorrow.
Thanks for your input!!!
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Sound all well and good, till this last paragraph.
As I'm not a fan of R410/POE oil, I have heard of no problems with the higher running head pressure.
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On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 07:35:43 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@mail.com wrote:

As far as zoning.........Im not totally thrilled with it. You already have 2 separate systems yet you still need zoning? You might need to address ductwork issues. Just my deal.....zoning is more parts to stop working. It works when done right but then, so do properly installed complete systems. Price? I dunno. Your best bet is to get 3 quotes from know reputable companies and dont be so hung up on the Trane brand. There are others. Unfortunately, I feel the best choice is to go to R-410a. I dont particularly like it but if R-22 disappears (like R-12 did) it will become scarce and expensive. Right now, R-410a seems to be the only "dumb" choice. :-) Id also make sure my indoor coil was a TXV metering device. I think matching a variable speed air handler with a 13 SEER unit in the Atlanta area isnt the best of choice. You dont necessarily need 19 SEER or something but 13 is the bottom of the line. Also, when I last checked my pricing, American Standard R-22 and R410a systems were the same price (within a couple bucks). Get another quote. Bubba
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When I referred to "zone", I meant the "upstairs" and "downstairs" zones. I have two A/C units outside with 2 furnaces in the attic (I'm on a slab). Sorry if I used the wrong terminology.
I just got a second quote for the same systems, and it was $5080 and $4480 before any rebates.
Interesting that you bring up "zoning" - He also recommends going to a single Amana 16 Seer/96% efficiency 4 ton system, with zoning - but I don't like the idea of that additional mechanics in the ductwork. It would be $8072 ($6672 plus $1400 for the zoning work).
And he told me if I stayed with Trane and R22, I could use the same lineset I have. The other guy said I needed a new one going up the side of the house (that would look ugly). And the first guy charges $343 per system for R410 (the second guy says about $100). As far as R22 disappearing, if I go with a maintenance contract, wouldn't that be Coolray's problem (or whoever I choose)?
Well, one more quote tomorrow for American Standard. That guy says it is the same as Trane, but in Atlanta all Trane parts are distributed by Home Depot, and he says they are a PITA. He handles American Standard so he doesn't have to deal with HD.
Thanks.
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wrote:

The guy obviously doesn't what to install the 410 units... that is the reasoning for the extra cost.

Cheaper isn't always BEST.

All Trane parts through HD???? I'd love to hear this guy's story after you talk to him! :-)
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On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 13:06:47 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@mail.com wrote:

Why is he willing to go all the way to a 16 SEER using Amana(Goodman) but a 13 SEER Trane with variable speed is all thats needed (according to him). Here is a hint: The Amana equipment is much less expensive.

Here is another clue. You can use the existing line set with the R-410a system too. All you need to do is blow it out with Nitrogen. If it makes you feel better, you can flush it out with a $100 can of Calgon RX-11 flush. Just make sure it is the right diameter line set.
How would it be Coolray's problem? Its your system. If R-22 disappears he can't "shit a can of it".

You're getting handed more shit on a platter than Ive heard in a while. Basically, Trane and Am Std ARE the same. American Standard is the Parent company. Cosmetic differences are mainly the differences. Bubba
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I think it is more a matter of his preference. He is doing this on his own home now (he says). Maybe he thinks the idea of going from 2 systems (up and down) to one with higher efficiency and cheaper would interest me. But I'd rather stay with 2 systems. My preference is Trane (or American Standard), just because I've had two Tranes running for 22.5 years, and those were "builder grade". There still running (now that the fan got loosened again), but I think they've served me enough.

OK, but I assume it has to have a particular diameter. I think it's 7/8 " , but the first guy seemed to think it won't work with either a new R22 or R410 system. He said regardless of which way I went, I needed a new lineset up the side of the house. The second guy said the current lineset would be fine for R22.

I guess your right there, I just assumed since Coolray offered a lifetime guarantee on parts and labor, if the machine didn't cool any more, they'd have to do something (even if it required a conversion)

Yes, I know American Standard is the "same", I just wanted to be sure no one disagreed with what the dealer told me on the phone. The point about "Home Depot" was that according to the owner of one of the installers, HD "controlled" ALL "Trane" distibution in metro ATL, while "American Standard" did not have to go through them.
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Name brand doesn't matter, if they don't install these correctly.

It's a personal preference, I like to run a new lineset with every new install. But as Bubba said, you can use the old one if it's cleaned and correctly sized.

LIFETIME???????
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I think a new lineset is the best thing to do, I just wish they didn/t have to run it up the side of the house, but they said they can't snake it through were it is today. I just hate the look of those ugly things when I drive around.

Well, it's lifetime on parts & labor (unless they exclude refrigerant) as long as you maintain a service contract.
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A quality contractor will hide the new lineset inside of a chase, like a plastic downspout or such. If its done right, nobody will even realize that its there.

Whos lifetime??
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On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:58:08 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@mail.com wrote:

As Nooner said.......The line set can be hidden. Cut out the back side of a rectangular downspout and attach it. Wha-Laa! Sizing is most important. The installation directions will tell you what size the system needs.

I havent heard of a Lifetime warranty either. Goodman had/has a lifetime warranty but thats about all Ive seen.
Bubba
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wrote:

If
set.
the
Yep, or they make lineset covers. Or one can get creative and used a matching vinyl siding corner. That way it blends in and you'll hardly even see it.
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HD did not carry the Trane Parts. Home Depot supply was a different entity from HD. I believe it used to be Apex Supply. They were one of the biggest supply HVAC/P Supply houses in that area. HD bought them a few years back. HD has sold that in the last few years, Trane parts are no longer bought from a company that has HD in its name.
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Trane Eqpt is distributed by Trane (owned/affiliated) wholesalers in most of the country... American Standard (owns Trane & Identical TUD = AUD) is distributed by independent wholesale houses, again in most parts...
If someone is trying to sell a 4 ton system to replace 4-1/2 to 5 tons, I'd make sure he ran some calcs & proved it can handle the load.
I'd look into the variable speed units, they save a bunch just in blower operation costs. I'd also look at a heat pump system. I realize Atlanta doesn't have the heat requirements of the Northern reaches, but looking over the past bills will give you an idea of the $$ spent on gas heat over the years. A properly sized HP could well replace 95% of your gas consumption. I'd look at a in 16i HP... 13 is the bottom. A TWE variable speed airhandler w/HP & Emergency Electric heat would disconnect your gas lines completely.
The installer recommending the R-22, probably hasn't taken the time to get trained on 410A issues. Old Dogs, etc... If he were installing a box fan & fireplace in his own home, I wouldn't follow his lead either. His feelings about the cost/payback isn't your concern either. I'd look at all available rebates, incentives, etc... I might even ask the local Utility if they can run an energy audit with the various eqpt options. Their opinion would hold more water in my opinion. Make sure to include gas & electric rate increases projected for future operation costs.
Another option might be to replace the one faulty system now. monitor operation over a year or two, then replace the 2nd later.
Then again, I might be wrong...
goodluck geothermaljones st.paul,mn.

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