Metal Duct in Garage against code?

[Rod]

Hi guys, Just recently found the group and thought I'd ask you guys about this. I own a heating and air business in GA and have for around 11 years now. Today I failed an inspection on a new house for having flexible duct in a basement garage. The air handler is in the garage with a metal trunk and flex take offs. We have done this on these types of houses for 11 years now and have never heard this. This is a new inspector and seems to really have a chip on his shoulders and he says no flex duct is allowed in the garage at all, that it has to all be metal. Have any of you ever heard of this? I never purchased the

2006 IMC which is what they use. It's not in my older code book but maybe it is in the new one. I now plan on buying the new code book but do you guys know if this is true or if he's mistaken? Thanks for the help, Rodney

[Noon-Air]

real simple... make the inspector *SHOW* you the site in the code book. If he wants it, he needs to be able to show you the exact site, and the P&I office needs to be able to show you the site also. If its a "local" requirement, then they need to be able to provide you with a copy.

[over a barrel]

Yup.

Any contractor with 1/2 a brain cell knows to require that the inspecter lists the specific violation by applicable code title chapter paragraph etc.

[Rod]

We are located in a rural county and are on kind of a 'good ol boy' system. If you push an inspector around here too much he'll make your like miserable for months maybe years to come. So it's hard to require them to do anything because there are only a couple of them and they care more about each other than you. If you stay on their good side he can make things easier on you by telling you 'such and such needs to be done but I'll go ahead and pass the rough inspection' rather than make you pay a reinspection fee. This particular part of the county uses the same inspector for all the houses unless he's out sick or something and the other part of the county uses the other. They also don't fill out any elaborate forms that give the code title chapter etc. They just right in the margin "no flex in garage". It sucks and it's not fair but that's the way it is and unfortunately if you try too hard to change it they will pick apart every job you do. What I've had to do in the past is call and ask what he's talking about and sometimes he's wrong and sometimes I'm wrong. Today I did call and we ended up arguing over it and he angrily told me he would look it up for me and show me. I thought I would ask you guys what you thought before I went and met with him. Of course I didn't realize I was the only one in the country with out the most current code book. I expected to be flamed a little but not attacked. The inspector said you haven't been able to put flex in a garage since the early 90's. Now I do have a code book that is newer than that and couldn't find that code. Just thought maybe someone else had heard it or had to deal with it before. Now back to running my half ass business. Thanks, Rodney

[KJPRO]

Nothing above changes the fact that you should've asked to see it in the book.

Well, that should be the end of it...

[Don Ocean]

There is also a damned good reason to know the codes and legal alternates. If a new inspector or one that wants to mess with you can cite you on a given code..then it behooves you to know if there are acceptable alternates that you have or may use. Having held several licenses for years including a General contractors license, it pays to know the codes and processes better or equal to the subcontractors and the inspection folks. It pays to send your Job leaders to all classes put on by the the building officials. That means plumbing, electrical, HVAC and General contracting code schools. It also means you have to pay your guys a good wage or they will take that knowledge and become your competition. Nothing upsets a customer more then some damned code dispute that tarnishes your excellent workmanship. Education and advertising don't cost..They pay!

[Don Ocean]

I recon its time to do the educated thing.. Buy those lads a cup of coffee and some pie from time to time and spend a bit of fishing, hunting and ballgame time with those boys. Above all do a good and safe job.

[Don Ocean]

Keep in mind that even inspectors have to justify their slaries from time to time.

[Stormin Mormon]

Dear Rod, Having read the last couple posts, things are more clear. It is unfortunate that you and the inspector ended up yelling at each other. Coming to the news group to get more ammo for your war doesn't sound like you'll be helping your case. Just irritate the guy some more. and you're the one who said what kind of vengeance they extract. Please consider the book "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie. Very good reading, and highly relevant.

[Don Ocean]

Get the coffee table version of that book.. It does a lot more damage when you hit them with it. And believe me, they will be influenced. ;-p

>

[KJPRO]

Shut your pie hole you stupid ass "lets be polite and win friends" freak.

[KJPRO]

CD version is cool... search option!

Gotta love the lowest bidder syndrome... Then the customer EXPECTS you to straighten it out for what it cost them originally. They don't understand that you have to rip out what was done and then do it correctly. This is AFTER everything is drywalled and completed. Like that's the time to redo everything!!!! :-(

[Rod]

If I've heard the words: "I should have let you do the job" once I've heard them a thousand times. I try to explain to people that we are not the cheapest because we don't cut the corners that some others cut. Some people can understand that and others just care about the cost. Point in case yesterday we condemned a compressor on a unit serving the kitchen of a restaurant that was installed 2 years ago by the lowest bidder. He installed Haier equipment which is a company out of China as most of you know. The compressor is under warranty but I can't find anyone around Atlanta that handles it. A search of their website brings up an appliance company. So I called them and they said they don't deal with the HVAC side of Haier. This guy bought a POS unit and now parts are almost impossible to get for it, and he's wanting to replace 2 year old equipment because the kitchen is so hot and they can't stand it. Haier tech support is supposed to call me back Monday and help me locate a compressor but so far every number I've called for Haier has resulted in a dead end or just being shuffled around. I take that back, I did talk to a lady that I could barely hear and spoke poor english who informed me that there were 3 different compressors listed for that unit and she didn't know which one I needed, hence the call from tech support. My tech didn't get the model# off the compressor so I'll get it this weekend but I still feel they are going to give me a hard time about just giving me a compressor. She had a 626 area code I'm not sure where that is but I'm assuming she is a good ways from me. Who's going to pay the freight, how do I get the old compressor back and who pays the freight on that? Before it's over with, this guys going to end up spending hundreds of dollars replacing a warranty compressor because he went with the lowest bidder without doing any homework on what name brand he was getting. As far as I know everyone that was handling Haier in GA has stopped and went to another name brand. Gave him the news this afternoon and guess what he said? "I GUESS I SHOULD HAVE LET YOU DO THIS JOB" Sorry for the long post. I got carried away. I'll climb down off my soap box now before I fall. Rodney

[KJPRO]

Who's paying shipping? The client! Why? Cause it isn't your shit or installation!

Why is it your problem to cover equipment sold by your competitor? It's not!

Why can your competition do jobs cheaper then you? Cause your fixing all their shit for them, UNDER WARRANTY!!!!! Shame on you!!!!!

Now then, starting right now, only do warranty work on equipment that you sold and installed. Problem solved!

[Stormin Mormon]

Soak the book in white glue, and allow to dry. Drill a hole, and swing it on the end of a rope. Get two books, make a bolo.

[Don Ocean]

That is good advice ... But only up to the point that you are *NOT* trying to add to your customer base. I have added a lot of good folks to mine that have taken it in the shorts from outfits that are not good enough to be my competitor. Wade into the shit and produce gold. I make it a point to only point out what I can do. Never diss your competition to a customer. One of the Boys used to call the competition and point out their f*ck ups. I stopped that as I see no reason to educate the competition. Its ok to do Ball Games, fish, Hunt with those guys..But not a good idea to upgrade your competition.. Upgrade your own business.

[Rod]

You have a good point. We have been trying to add to our customer base and we do this stuff but are well compensated for it. We may warranty the part but we charge a handling fee and are sure to make a good profit. We've developed a pretty good relationship with all the major namebrand suppliers so that when we order a warranty part that we don't have to normally send back the old one, but just hang on to it 30 days or so until the warranty credit is approved. So we usually only have freight one way which the customer has to pay. Is this right or wrong? Not sure to be honest. We have gotten a lot of customers and kept them this way. This guy I'm talking about with the restaurant is one of my customers and has been for years, but he went and let someone else do this job because they would do it cheaper. Of course I'm called to clean up the mess. Now I can do one of 2 things: either fire him as customer or fix it and charge the mess out of him for doing it. Again not sure what the right thing to do is but if I'm going to clean up the mess at least I can make a good profit for doing it. Although we've weathered the economy situation pretty well, I hate to turn away the work and loose this customer. Believe it or not he recommended me to another restaurant yesterday and we got another compressor changeout out of the deal (not in warranty). So if you figure that in we'll make pretty good for taking a few hours to clean up this guys mess. Again although I've been in business for 11 years now I'm still learning as I go and 'm not sure what the text "book way" to handle this type situation would be. Rodney

[KJPRO]

Wrong

What happens when you have to send a part back and you've already billed the client? You lose money for the return shipping! It's to your advantage to have a good working relationship with your distributors, not always does this travel to your clients!

Think of it this way... if you get a bonus, discount, free merchandise (shirts, hats, mugs, etc) do you ALWAYS turn right around and hand this stuff to your clients? I bet you don't, the returned warranty items "relationship" is no different. Except, you may have to pay for some shipping out of your pocket *if* you have to return a particular item after you already billed your client!

As Noonie always says... the client pays for everything!

[Rod]

Good point. Point also noted. I am sometimes too nice for my own good. You are right, we'll have to start charging freight both ways whether we use it or not. Thanks! Rodney

[Noon-Air]

Good point. Point also noted. I am sometimes too nice for my own good. You are right, we'll have to start charging freight both ways whether we use it or not. Thanks! Rodney

If your not yet using flat rate pricing, then you need to get on board that particular train and start not just turning money, but actually making a decent *profit*. Thats all about the business of running a business.