Heater Defrost Balance Point

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Am I correct that the 'Heater Defrost Balance Point' is the setting for calling for Aux heat when the outdoor temperature hits a certain point
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" M Harris" <mh at soalex.us> wrote in message

no
The balance point is normally used on a dual fuel/hybrid system for the most economical point to lock out the heat pump and switch over to the first stage of a gas or oil furnace. Normally, when this configuration is used, the furnace will not fire if the heat pump goes into a defrost cycle because of head pressure issues.
Here in south Mississippi, I use 35F for a balance point.
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Wonders never cease. An actual helpful answer from someone in this group!
David
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If a legitmate question is asked, it gets a legitmate answer.
If its a question from somebody like a landlord or a DIY that wants professional services for free, gets a correct answer then bitch cause its not what they wanted to hear, they catch a load of crap.
Its like somebody calling on the phone and asking "How much is an air condition?" Then they get their panties in a wad because they get told "Anywhere from $4,000 to $20,000. Can't tell them anything else without knowing a whole lot more information that they don't have, like system configuration, desired efficiency, actual Manual J and Manual D calcs, etc.
If its broke, they don't have a clue about make, model, serial number, or anything else, and don't want to hear that they will have to pay for a service call to have the system diagnosed by a pro to find out whats actually wrong with it.
Most of John Q Public think that if they replace the thermostat, their 15 year old system that has never been serviced will work again. They don't want to hear that a thermostat is nothing more than a temperature controlled ON/OFF SWITCH....... or that its not low on "Freezone".
Most of the standard 50 or so home owner questions that have been asked thousands of times over the last dozen years, can be answered by a simple google search.
We have to live with the "Walmart" mentality.... folks call all the time looking for the cheapest service call fee, then they take it in the shorts because the guy charges them for each of the addition 4 or 5 trips because he didn't get it right the first time, and *still* hasn't corrected the original problem.
I don't know about you, but I *DON'T* want the cheapest dentist, heart surgen, general practitioner, lawyer, mechanic, or any other professional.... I want the best. Why would you want the cheapest to service, maintain and repair the single most expensive appliance in your home??
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On 10/15/2010 5:31 PM, Steve wrote:

Hey, my AC ain't a workin, ah thank it's the freon or the thermostat. How much you fixin to charge me?
TDD
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Well, I usually get twenty bucks to show up. And then ten bucks an hour. I got the good freezon stuff, that be six bucks a pound.
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Christopher A. Young
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On 10/15/2010 8:43 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

How fur are yoo frum Sand Mountain? Ye gotta look out fer them troopers on th state hieway. Them ol boys ill get ya.
TDD
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I usually come down Coopers Pass. You know, where the old barn burned down. I can go, well, it's posted at 35 there. They never bother me. I set the cruise control about 33. I can't go no faster, now the muffler is clogged up like.
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I'm so, so totally tempted to flame Steve. He broke the rules.
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Christopher A. Young
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Thanks Steve - going to disable until I see at what outdoor temp my wife complains when HP defrosts.
Do you know what the effect of "Compressor Cycles Per Hour" setting does. I understand it only allows X cycles but do you know if set low, say 2/hr - will it extend the compressor run time to prevent there being a long off time after the 2 cycle completes? There also a "Temperature Control in Heat" which I suspect has a similiar effect of causing longer run time in the less agressive temp control setting.

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" M Harris" <mh at soalex.us> wrote in message

Lets start with the basics.....
Where are you located?? What is the make and model of you new thermostat that your trying to set up?? Why did you feel the need to change the thermostat in the first place?? What is the configuration of your system?? (A/C w/ Electric heat?, A/C w/ gas heat?, A/C w/ oil heat? heat pump w/ electric strips? dual fuel/hybrid?) Make and model numbers of outside and inside units?? When were they installed?? Was the system working *before* you changed the thermostat?? When was the last time the system was serviced?? Are all the vents wide open?? even in rooms that your not using?? What type of filter are you using and when was the last time it was changed??
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Steve - New unit is a Trane Xl20i w/ matching gas furnace. It's working fine I just want to gain more manual control over it.
It replaced a dual fuel system w/ a 3 ton York HP that was installed in '79. Old system was configured so that it there was no auto-switchover to gas and thermostat was set loose to avoid a lot of cycling. Understand manual control is not everyone cup of tea but I prefer it to the decisions this new digital Honeywell thermostat is making. Basically want to do a least some of the things was doing w/ old system. Ex. run on HP until I notice it's not holding temp. Then I'll do manual switch. Also don't want backup heat on during defrost cycles unless it's fairly cold out. My suspicion is that old HP's longevity was helped by my running it for long periods w/o short cycling it. So I also wanting to loosen the tight control the thermostat does of the temp. This is why I'm trying to understand the unfamiliar wording I'm seeing in the manual.
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On 10/15/2010 10:20 PM, M Harris wrote:

When you say set loose, I take it to mean your former thermostat was setup with a wide differential in set points. In other words, the temp it cut off could have been 10 different from temp it cut on.
TDD
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Not that loose - it's default had been ~ 1degree. changed it to 2.5 degrees
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On 10/16/2010 6:31 AM, M Harris wrote:

I was using 10 as an extreme example. Your digital thermostat should have adjustable set points and some thermostats have outdoor sensors to help determine the best heat pump operation. Oh yea, what brand and model is your new thermostat and does it have the option for an external sensor?
TDD
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It's badged as a Trane Tcont900 which is the green background Honeywell for 4-stage heat. There is an outdoor temp sensor.
We're getting off point. Understand the system will make auto decisions about what is necessary. I'm looking for what I need to do to get manual control of the the system.
For example - how does one limit HP to just 1 stage heat.
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" M Harris" <mh at soalex.us> wrote in message

First off, that control is *DESIGNED* to maintain your comfort level within one degree as well as control humidity levels, as economically as possible. It will provide whatever stages of heat or cool that is called for by demand.
The comfort system is designed to maintain a constant, even temperature throughout the entire house. The whole idea is to set and forget, let the control do its job of controling the system. FWIW, this particular control, when installed on an existing system will reduce utility usage by 15 - 18% by itself when its allowed to do its job.
If the system is less than 1 year old, your best bet is to contact the installer and have the installer make whatever changes to the control you need, and explain all of the functions to you.
If you can't live with "set and forget" and have to keep futzing with it, maybe you should have the installer replace the electronic control with a mechanical one that doesn't have auto change-over, and doesn't have built in humidity controls, and doesn't have setback with intelligent recovery to save more energy, and doesn't accurately tell you what the inside and outside temperatures are, and doesn't have a filter change reminder, and doesn't have that bright red LED that tells you when the heat pump has failed, and so on and so forth. Not to mention the 15- 18% increase in your utility bills.
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On 10/16/2010 9:00 AM, Steve wrote:

At one time computers took up whole floors of buildings and came with human engineers to keep them running. I envision a plastic project box with a half dozen toggle switches incorporating a couple of adjustable thermostats, giving it a Steampunk look would be a bonus.
I understand that the fellow wants more control over the operation of his system perhaps because it's what he's accustom to. I prefer manual control of some things myself but when I get tired and lazy, it's back to auto pilot. Engineers have spent countless man hours designing and testing modern HVAC systems in order to provide the optimum in system efficiency so you can set it and forget it. I understand what the gentleman wants but I don't understand why. The system longevity is considered by the design engineers whenever a system is put into production and it has controls to prevent short cycling or any other detrimental operation.
TDD
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umpteen years ago. it ain't grampas air condioner or furnace anymore.
I have a couple of elderly customers that took MONTHS to get them to keep their cotton pickers off the controls and let the controls do their job. Hands free and automatic were not terms they associated with their "thermostat" I had one that I had to lock out because I was getting 2 and 3 calls a day because they couldn't hear it run and kept mashing buttons on the control. I had another one that I had to remotely mount the control out of sight and put a non functional round one back on the wall so they had something to play with.
Yes, these folks are technology chalanged, and yes, once they figured out that the controls didn't have to (or need to) be touched, they are much happier, their home is comfortable, and their utility bills went down 40 - 50% compared to what they were before they had me install their new comfort system.
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On 10/16/2010 2:56 PM, Steve wrote:

^Mexican AC^ 8-)

Years ago, the father of a friend of mine put the real thermostat in the closet (perhaps not the best place) and left a dummy on the hallway wall for mom to play with. I like Accustat thermostats mounted in the return air to keep meddling fingers at bay. Any old thing on the wall with perhaps a blinking LED for people to play with. 8-)
TDD
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