Heat Pump + Aux Heat Problem - Can You Help?

Page 1 of 2  
Hello. I have a relatively new house (2.5 years) that has an American Standard Heat Pump (2a6b3018-060a1000a). It also has some form of American Standard aux heater (bayhtr???) in the air handler. This is controlled by a Panasonic TH8000 thermostat.
We have had a long period of cold weather here in Seattle and I have noticed that during this time two unusual behaviors are happening with my heating system:
(a) I have not see the AUX Heat indicator come on on the TH8000 thermostat. I have seen this frequently before and I took it to mean that the aux heater was helping the heat pump along. But I have not seen it at all in at least a week and I have looked frequently at the thermostat.
(b) There are times when the heat pump is not operating (I can see the fan blades stopped) but there is significant cool air (not icy cold but certainly not warm) coming out of my heating ducts. It is clearly being blown by a circulating fan in the system but there is no warmth.
I have looked as much as I can at the heating unit under the house and see nothing unusual. I checked the electronic air filter and it seems fine.
Any idea what may be wrong here? Thanks.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:04:11 -0800, David White

I have 1 million ideas as to what can be wrong. Send me a dollar per idea and we can play, otherwise you can call a licensed hvac contractor and they can actually walk up, touch it, see it, and fix it. Merry Christmas!
I am the real ftwhd and I approve this message.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Come on, guys, how bout giving him a straight answer. It's probably going through a defrost cycle. Your HVAC guy can adjust it so that the heat strips kick in when it's in defrost so you don't feel so cold.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Injun Ear wrote:

Thanks. I have tried putting the thing into emergency heat mode and I find that this both gets heat coming from the registers but also gets the aux heat indicator showing on the thermostat. So it seems that at least part of the thermostat is ok and that the heater is working. But I am not sure what to conclude must be wrong here. Happy holidays!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Most likely there's nothing at all wrong with your thermostat--but with a trane / american standard then in order to get your electric strips to come on during condensor defrost you need to connect the black wire ( defrost signal ) at the condensing unit outside up to the aux heat terminal at the inside air handler--probably you'll find there is a spare white wire that you can use for this.
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
doh! wrote:

Thanks for your tip and happy holidays to you. Can you think of any reason why this would have been working fine and suddenly stops working? Perhaps it is in some way due to this very long and cold spell we have had here in Seattle recently? I have to believe that this has been wired correctly as I know I have seen the aux heat indicator come on the thermostat before. I remember having to look it up in the thermostat manual to find out what it means. Cheers!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
David White wrote:

Thanks once again for your responses. I just found some info on the internet here <http://en.allexperts.com/q/Heating-Air-Conditioning-696/2008/2/Heat-pump-thermostat-control.htm and here <http://en.allexperts.com/q/Heating-Air-Conditioning-696/2008/2/Heat-pump-thermostat-control.htm that made me start checking things more carefully.
When this cold spell hit, I raised the temperatures on my thermostat schedules. I have never done this before. Under the previous schedule, I had simply raised the temp manually on the thermostat to what I wanted when needed. Thinking back, this is when I typically saw the aux heat indicator show on the thermostat.
So I just manually raised the temperature from its current setting by a couple degrees and indeed the thermostat does show the aux heat indicator. For this reason, I am thinking that the aux heater does, in fact, work.
However, I am not sure about if it is working during the defrost cycle of the heat pump. I only found out recently that there was such a thing. I may never have noticed it before because it has never been this cold this long since I have been in this house with the heat pump. Maybe the heat pump only has to go through a defrost cycle when it is very cold. Or maybe it does it frequently but I have only noticed it now because the air being used right now is so very cold.
Do I have to call in a pro to see it the thing is properly set/wired so that the aux heat comes on during the defrost cycle? Or is there some way I can check that?
Thanks and happy holidays to all!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

the
I
a
defrost
that
<http://en.allexperts.com/q/Heating-Air-Conditioning-696/2008/2/Heat-pump-th ermostat-control.htm>
<http://en.allexperts.com/q/Heating-Air-Conditioning-696/2008/2/Heat-pump-th ermostat-control.htm>
Yes defrost only happens when its fairly cold outside, and the colder it gets outside the more noticable the cold air blast inside will be.

Yes it would be a good idea to call in a pro, like I say it's the black wire outside that needs to be traced /connected up to aux ( you will find voltage there in relation to common only during defrost )--also suggest ask him about a lockout thermostat, this is placed outdoors and can lower your operating costs by locking out the electric strips unless the outdoors temps drop below a set value say 40 deg or so.
As far as testing, its easy to test defrost operation--there's probably a tst and speedup jumper wire or somesuch on the board but off the top of my head I cant recall the exact configuration that trane / american standard uses at this point in time.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 07:32:41 -0800, David White

Dude, You need to do what you need to do. Anything could have happened or nothing at all did. Remember, during defrost, the aux heat strips kick in to "TEMPER" the air. Its not meant to heat the home at that time. Watch the info you get from all the crack pots in here like "doh" and others that want you to add a wire to something or others that think we all owe you something and should answer your every question with a smile. This group was mainly started with all professionals. In other words, this is what we do to put food on our tables. If everyone answered for free it wouldnt make a whole lot of sense for us. Take what you get. Merry Christmas
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

the
But I

with a

defrost
that
working?
wired
hermostat-control.htm>
hermostat-control.htm>
Well no shit dude glad to see that maybe you finally learning to keep up.

Go fuck yourself most likely you don't encounter a heat pump with electric strips more often that perhaps 3 times per decade.
--Pretty sure it was you about 2 years back that was trying to tell us all about how best to add an outdoors thermostat so as to shut the heat pump clear off and go to aux only during cold spells but hey now it's not worth my time looking it up.
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
David White wrote:

<http://en.allexperts.com/q/Heating-Air-Conditioning-696/2008/2/Heat-pump-thermostat-control.htm

<http://en.allexperts.com/q/Heating-Air-Conditioning-696/2008/2/Heat-pump-thermostat-control.htm

It has been suggested that the thermostat is in adaptive recovery mode because I switched the scheduled temperatures. An I have seen the recovery indicator on the thermostat so that must be the case.
I think I understand that while in this mode, the thermostat does NOT call upon the aux heater. The manual says it can take about a week for the system to adjust. But does this recovery mode only kick-in around the time(s) that the schedule changes? It seems like that is the only time I see the recover indicator shown on the thermostat.
I feel the cold blasts at times other than when the schedule changes and I see the recovery indicator on the thermostat. So these may be defrost periods. Would the thermostat in recovery mode have any effect on the use of the aux heater during defrost?
I feel that with your help I am starting to focus in on the problem and actually understand a little more of how my system works. Thanks again for all your time and help. Happy holidays.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Obviously your not happy or comfortable with the way the system is operating. We can't check it or make any needed repairs or adjustments through the computer. Instead of screwing around on here and never *KNOWING* if its its right or not, make the call to your favorite *competent*, licensed, insured, professionally trained, HVAC technician to come check the system, make any needed repairs/adjustments, and service the system. This will remove all doubt if its right or not. Ask your servicing technician about a prefered customer service agreement. No, its not gonna be free, and I highly discourage using the lowest priced contractor. The required training, education and experience are not free, nor is the truck, nor or the spare parts inventory on the truck...for that matter, the techs time isn't free either. Small companies are a good thing because you know that the teck will most likely either be the owner or a very well trained tech, as opposed to the large companies where you never know who your gonna get.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Obviously a biased small company speel...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

In a non-union world, where there is no actual apprenticeship or journeyman levels. Master level is achieved through passing SBCCI, NATE, or other recognized equivelancy exams. Master level is *REQUIRED* to even qualify to take the SBCCI Contractor exam. Here, the big companies only have one or 2 that are certified Masters, and most of the rest of their "techs" are anybody that can fog a mirror. With *legitimate* small companies, its a different matter entirely.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

So then stormy is better because he is a small company.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The King wrote:

No..Stormy is better because we can make a lot more money mopping up behind him..:-p Actually Stormy may be a lot better then his press releases here indicate. He hasn't been shot dead by an irate homeowner, so who is to say?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Helps to live in a state with very low gun ownership.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

so
some
mode
time I

and
and
again
check
This
technician
priced
free,
that
thing
a
never
journeyman
to
2
No Nooner is better just because--and it dont matter a bit if that he cant find anyone thats still breathing thats willing to work alongside of him for peanut wages.
--



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:43:28 -0800, "Bipolar_Bear"

Nooner is a joke just like all the regs here are.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The joke is on all of us if we dont all keep a pluggin away man.
Profound shit and sad but true.
Nooner does service his area--he could be the ONLY BIDDER but so far he hasnt posted any pics of gold ear rings and some BMW service vehicles.
--




Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.