furnace question for HVAC guru's....

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Roy, I get about 4K to install a variable speed 90, and 3.3K for a 80% vs furnace. I provide for 7 families including my own, with a good living wage, all benefits, 1-2 weeks vaca, outings and parties, bonus', etc. I also cover my overhead which is about $360K per year. My payroll is 7k per week.
1300 X 5 = 6500 doesn't even cover my payroll, much less my overhead, and hell, who needs a profit.
But, hell you are one cheap son of a bitch to want to deny my workers enough money to feed their families and go on a vacation once a year.
I hope your guy has a good retirement plan, and has someone picked out to pick up where he left off. And.......what kind of idiot doesn't install AC in the summer.
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> And.......what kind of idiot doesn't install AC

Bob... it's the 'Wal-Mart' mentality... I believe.
But my comment was this: A guy that doesn't install AC in the summer is most likely someone who doesn't know how....
... and if he hasn't taken the time and effort to do that.. then I certainly wouldn't want him installing gas appliances in my home.
But that's just me...
Jake
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"Bob Pietrangelo" wrote:

A very special kind, lol.
In Ca, a licensed Plumber (C-36) is allowed to do heating work, as back when the license laws were created, hydronic heating played a large part. Today, many licensed plumbing companies also do ac (illegally, unless they also carry a C-20 HVAC license). So its not uncommon to see drain cleaning companies also doing hvac work....
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I hope they wash their hands first!
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And what do you deny your customers by charging them $300/hr when they probably make less than $25/hr?

This is a one-man shop, Overhead is about nil, If he installs 3 furnaces a month he is making a living wage. Add a few service calls and he's doing very well. Not bad for maybe 5 days work a month.
The kind of idiot who doesn't install AC is one who lives in an area where maybe 1 out of 1000 homes uses AC or HP's.
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If that's true, he's charging to much for his services or he isn't running a shop with insurance and the required tools to operate a legit business!
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$200 for materials????????????????? LOL
LP kit? Gas Piping Flu/Combustion Piping (priced PVC & fittings lately) Termination Kit (flu/combustion) Supply transition Return transition Sheet Metal Supplies Mastic Sealant (duct sealant) Media Filter Rack (with extra media) Condensate Pump? Drain Supplies New Digital Stat Electrical Wiring (priced copper wiring lately) Electrical Supplies Control Wiring and Supplies PVC Cleaner PVC Glue Pipe Sealant Hanger Materials Sheet Metal Screws Hanger Screws Vibration Mounts (Equipment Pad) Wire Ties Misc Supplies
So, what did he not provide you for that $200?
Then how much do you think a 1 Year Labor Warranty is worth?
Don't forget that he not only has to provide the materials needed, but he has to provide the following:
Service/Installation Vehicle Insurance for said vehicle Plates for said vehicle Vehicle Maintenance Liability Insurance Tools Tools and Equipment Insurance Tool Maintenance Technical Training New Product Training Code Books Business License Sales Tax License Certification Fees Uniforms Uniform Service Garbage Disposal
Ut-Oh
Don't forget............
Federal Taxes State Taxes County Taxes Social Security (not just the half you pay, he's self employed so he pays the whole amount) Property Taxes Sales Tax
Vacations
Store Front (mortgage/rent) Property/Renters Insurance Building Repairs Shop Furniture Shop Tools Dealer Meetings Advertising Inventory Inventory Taxes Business Equipment Business Forms Brochures Computers Software Postage Legal Fees CPA Fees Trade Subscriptions Office Staff Unemployment Insurance Workman's Comp Health Plans
Telephone Bill Electrical Bill Gas Bill Water Bill Sewer Bill Security Bill Mobile Telephone Bill Pager Bill
Health Insurance 401K Holiday Pay Sick Pay Life Insurance Dental/Vision Insurance
Are you still set on your $200 for the extras????????
If this doesn't open your eyes, nothing will!!!!
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I understand and appreciate your overhead costs however:
There is a business term " Economies of scale" which does not seem to apply to your trade.
"When more units of a good or a service can be produced on a larger scale, yet with (on average) less input costs, economies of scale (ES) are said to be achieved. Alternatively, this means that as a company grows and production units increase, a company will have a better chance to decrease its costs. According to theory, economic growth may be achieved when economies of scale are realized."
BTW, my local mechanic charges approx $60/hr and has all those expenses and more (ie: $5000/mo lease) Why is it that he can make a living at $60 yet you guys need approx $300/hr???
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Who said anything about $300/hr???
Does your mechanic load that shop up in the back of his vehicle and work "on site" at your residence? Open up your mind and think, their is a lot of cost that you want to dismiss as legit costs of doing business.
If one charges less, their lifestyle and benefits are a direct reflection of that lower service rate. I on one hand like to be on top of my game. That cost money to support the latest equipment, training and resources to provide the best service for my clients that I possibly can provide.
That doesn't come cheap!
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Seems the average is 4k to install a +90% VS = $4000 - $1600 equipment cost = $2400 labor / 8 hrs = $300/hr

No, but he pays a lot to lease a shop.

I can see your point but not for a one-man shop specializing in installing and servicing furnaces.
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Oh, so now it's magically a VS $1600 furnace. What happened to the $1000 furnace and $200 in materials? 8 hrs??? I can just imagine the steps that were skipped in your installation. I'd love to see pictures of this mess.

Do we not have shops too???

If he "specializes in furnaces" he's not the cheapest in town.
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Bob's post: "Roy, I get about 4K to install a variable speed 90, and 3.3K for a 80% vs furnace. I provide for 7 families including my own, with a good living wage, all benefits, 1-2 weeks vaca, outings and parties, bonus', etc. I also cover my overhead which is about $360K per year. My payroll is 7k per week."
As I said before I have had quotes over $5,000 for the same equipment, average is $4,000 NOT VS!

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You stated above "As I said before I have had quotes over $5,000 for the same equipment, average is $4,000 NOT VS!"
Your guy was $2400. That's the bottom end for your area... it's time to wake up and smell the BULLSHIT.
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I did smell the BS from the other overpriced contractors who would have done the install the same (or worse) as the CORRECTLY priced contractor I selected.
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No load calculation.
No combustion testing.
No static pressure testing.
Do you have any pictures that you can upload of this install, I need to see this, it should be a real site!
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The whole install.
Sheet metal work Utility hook ups Vent terminations
Chop, chop, lets get this ball a rolling.
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http://tinyurl.com/pbtlt
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That job was inspected?????????
By who? Pee Wee Herman?
The list of code violations is long! And you didn't even show the complete installation.
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Here are the real pics http://tinyurl.com/j6p5s
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