Alt groups do not have charters.
Here is the RFD and charter for sci.engr.heat-vent-ac:
As you can see, the RFD was posted in alt.hvac. That means this group predates sci.engr.heat-vent-ac.
Now Paul Milligan claims that this later charter also applies to this earlier group. But it makes no sense for two groups to have *identical* charters.
Can you find the original discussion from when alt.hvac was created?
Don.
One group was for deep design theorem types and the other group was for Working business professionals. One was supervised by a Law Professor with a Minor in Thermodynamics. The other by a HVAC Master with a Minor in Programming..The Standby was a degreed Computer Scientist that headed a Division of TI. Several degreed Engineers there including me. Lots of young techs learning the business. HomeMoaners not encouraged due to legal ramifications of bad advice or mal use of advice. Also who gives away their products for free?
alt.hvac was rebuilt a second time by advice from Nick. Can't kill the thing now. Dejavu was
Only for specially set up ones.. There is an RFC that covers that. Most alt groups are the wild west. Not this one!
My big question is why you want to know and why are you here? If you were not of this group then you should go where you fit in. Most of this group is on facebook now. There are a couple of so-called pro web pages that don't amount to spit that would like to use these groups as a springboard for their advertising and online money making. That was not the purpose! so from time to time some of us drop by and do a little housework. Killing a NG like these 2 is almost impossible. The Web pages are gone and most if not all the archives legally deleted. There are literally thousands of NG's that are empty and no viable way to clean them out.
Amusing ...Google didn't exist then...
Well golly gee yeah! We owned them both!
Nick was a Professor at Villanova( A University that specializes in Law) Nick accepted supervision of Sci.engr.heat-vent-ac...Paul supervised alt.hvac. These two NG were establish together at the same time with the same rules and with excellent legal advice. In fact we retained the right to delete outside posts and did..Still can. Lynette(Texas Instruments) merely wanted access and would do the necessary patches to software that we put up for free distribution among the technical folks in the HVAC industry. As for RFC's Several of those were written by folks in these groups.
I have those records. Not for you though. About 15 people did the discussion..3 people did the set up Paul, Nick, and Lynette.
We had literally hundreds of professional posters from all points of the globe. There were some language barriers..But we got past them. In fact the International Building Codes now used in all nations was promoted somewhat by these very groups.
Teachers. People who put knowledge first and want to empower others.
It will only take one wise guy that specializes in mini splits to put you entitled clowns out of business. This is high school education stuff and not rocket science.
Who is giving away product? We are discussing giving away information. Many, many people like helping other people. They get satisfaction from it. And it doesn't cost a thing.
I subscribed to this group to see if Stormin Mormon's death was announced. It was. So I added the link to his condolences page. Over in alt.home.repair many people expressed their sorrow. Only one person in this group cared enough to post. Only one.
Stormin Mormon was willing to help others. I suspect the regulars in this group were happy to see him gone.
Don.
Hey! I resemble that remark. Mikek
Now you've gone and done it. You are reinforcing the HVAC tech as the Rodney Dangerfield of Service. No respect I tell ya, no respect at all!
Mikek
Might pay you to look on the internet, loads of good free help to diyers. Professionals give free advice all the time, however not the those with Rodney Dangerfield syndrome.
Mikek
Still requires 2 years of Votech just to become an apprentice. 4 years of Apprentice to become a Journeyman...2years of Journeyman to become a Master and another year or 2 as master to make Contractor. That is just the time..You need practical factors and both a physical test and written test to advance in this Clown business. I personally have a degree. Many of us do. Which reminds me.. Myself and a number of others did the Clown work of designing the environment system for Apollo. How is that for Rocket Science? I wonder who did the environmental systems for the space station? Geee, I bet it was one of you HomeMoaners.
Heh! Heh! that is funny. have you looked at the salary levels of teachers whom only work 8 months a year? And there is no Profession more power hungry then the National Association of Teachers.
Or, you could just be the brother of contractor with a cell phone.... that's who showed up at my house. Brother's get the same rate too!
People like me helped you to get it... Get off of this "HomeMoaners" crap.
Wrong..Some do.... In fact some of the early ones even had moderators. It depends on the hierarchies.
It is a moot question anyway. alt.hvac has been acused by your kind of being maverick and illegal..Mostly due to its being voted on twice. First time was before changes were made and the second time after changes were made and then only to insure moral legality. I do not understand your interest as you have a history of malfeasance of your own. End of Conversation.. So sue the Net...
I have never heard of the National Assoc. of Teachers. Few are in higher level education for the money. It is true that some school districts pay their K-12 teachers very well; they have strong unions. I'm not among them that group. I have my PhD and people like me taught you. 'nuff said.
You are a malcontent..I sent Money and condolences to the Funeral home.. Why I mention it is merely to shut you up. A number of people did the same. Tracking them by their condolences and generosity would mark you as an unfriendly entity. Stormy was not one of us. He was a handyman that was struggling to make a living. He sometimes gave dangerous advice while posing as a licensed and Bonded HVAC contractor. Why don't you go back to your recipes and HomeMoaner Ng and mind your own business instead of our?
Actually a couple relieved tensions by having him to flame. Kind of a Mascot if you will.
Also..there are no regulars here. The group reconvened on facebook due to unwelcome intrusions by fools such as yourself.
So obviously you are here to take and not to give. Also you are a cheap chiseler that thinks working professions have the time and desire to give you free, what they have worked long years to attain. Without free stuff..You would probably be Homeless. You have an excellent case of
*Deadbeat Syndrome*. >
Ye olde guilde mentality... No one has to understand what they do, or what reason it has, as long as they memorize and follow rules. That's how animals are trained and tested.
A friend up in Virginia bought a mini split from one of the big outfits like Home Depot for $3,800 Installed. Two days after the purchase a team of four guys show up and hang the evaporator head and mount the compressor and run lines (through brick). Then the AC tech shows up and hangs a gauge on it and pumps it down and leaves, the electrician mounts the disconnect and wires it in, and he's out of there. AC tech comes back the next day, opens the valves, checks the operation and he's out of there too.
Nothing like that here though.
Here it is two guys and they tie up a truck and equipment while they spend all day. I guess if you can sell enough systems fast enough, and not worry about your slack season...
I live a somewhat frugal life, but that's so I can save 40% to 50% of my earnings. It's a "plan".
I assume you consider yourself one of those working professionals, And you have plenty of time to waste on alt.hvac defending from a weak position.
You are clueless. I have had as many as six homes at one time, so I doubt I'll be homeless.
No, I have always worked and I work 50 to 55 hrs a week now. But, in about 4 months I'll be retired living off dividends and interest.
My latest favorite quote. "I'm not here to go into debt to impress a neighbor I don't like."
Mikek
PS.
If anyone is interested in the "plan" look here, I suggest starting at the beginning. (page down)
And a forum for people interested in the "plan".
Here's the story of what it takes to retire in (you pick the) number of years.
The only guys out of the whole mess that knew the entire system and what to do. Also had Gas fitters license, HVAC license, and Electricians license along with the knowledge to handle inspection, building and Insurance codes. You are aware that Home Depot contracts the work out to the cheapest and least likely to succeed licensee.
>
In other words you are lazy and unproductive enough to Not hire folks because your time would be more valuable in hard cash then theirs.
Actually not.. I own 3 businesses in 3 states and have excellent management. I don't hire your kind. I have nothing to defend this NG from. Idiots like you are the amusement of many lurkers.
Ahhh,,Now we have it..A Slumlord that is too cheap to give his tenants a decent domicile for their hard earned cash.. More then likely a title 19 deadbeat.. Thanks for the eye opener,,
Now I know you are a liar! Your posting times coincide with financial news. Thus you are not keeping track. I have charted Commodities and the markets long before I post here.
Yep...You are just another lying panhandler. A food stamp and subsidized housing leech.
I deleted you spam! What kind of a con game are you playing anyway?
I'd have to look it up to know what title 19 is, but clearly you know.
You can't know that because I have posted no lies, that make you a liar.
Never said I was a trader. Sorry you need to watch the markets everyday so you don't lose your britches.
Again, you have no clue.
I'm glad you have found the American dream, "I own 3 businesses in 3 states and have excellent management." Congratulations.
If you had read it you would see it different.
No spam, just useful advice to help those that want to help themselves. Looks like you don't want to help.... Oh that's right, you don't want to help others get ahead. LOL
But I do,
If anyone is interested in the "plan" look here, I suggest starting at the beginning. (page down)
And a forum for people interested in the "plan".
Here's the story of what it takes to retire in (you pick the) number of years.
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