A/C problem, need help ASAP

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Now that we know that what you have is *probably* a Goodman/Janitrol, or an Intertherm, fill us in on a few more details... Is it a house or a trailer?? Is it gas heat?? or electric?? The answers will determine what recommendations you will get. While you are thinking about replacement, check this link for a little food for thought. http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phaseout/hcfc.html
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It is a "Tempstar".

It is a house, about 5k square feet if I count the finished basement. Gas heat. I am going to read that link now, thanks.
i
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Noon-Air writes:

Typical Al Gore EPA baloney. This only applies to certain "developed nations"; the rest of the world will make more R-22 than we ever did or would have. Just like has happened with R-12. Look what's happened to the ozone since!
Investment tip: Get the EPA license (http://www.epatest.com /) and stockpile R-22. The people that did this in the early 1990s with R-12 bought it at $1/lb and sold it for $50/lb.
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Why would they do that? the "rest of the world" aren't manufacturing heat pumps to use R-22 any more.
Mark Rand RTFM
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Mark Rand writes:

That's a ridiculous assertion. Look at the biggest HVAC brand in China, Haier. Everything in their catalog is R-22.
China is in the midst of a huge retrofit to air conditioned housing in the cities. All the old Stalinesque high-rises are now covered with R-22 mini- splits.
R-22 has superior physical and economical properties to any alternative. No one is going to abandon it except for political reasons. And in the third world, physics and economy still beat nutty environmentalist politics.
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On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 17:43:24 -0500, Richard J Kinch

Except R-290. Still used in Europe, too.
--
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~^Johnny^~ writes:

Well, yes, but I don't mean THAT kind of alternative. I mean like R-134a or Puron.
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On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:50:40 -0500, Richard J Kinch

It's fun to blame Al Gore, I'm sure, but the Republicans have ruled the EPA for 5 1/2 years now.

That's what it says.

So what's your point. They won't be selling it here, except as the schedule provides.
I don't think you read the chart very carefully. It clearly states that R-22 will be available in the US for ACs made before 2010. And that that will be its status until 2020, after which it won't be legally available IN THE US.
If other countries, don't accept the Montreal Protocols, that's the way it is.
Just like has happened with R-12. Look what's happened to the

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mm writes:

The point is simply that liberal environmentalists have gotten the US government to forcibly create a completely artificial shortage (in the US only) of an economically very valuable substance. Supposedly this is to lower emissions into the atmosphere, but even if you grant the dubious desirability of that goal, the artificial shortage is absurd since the third world has no such restriction and has every incentive to outproduce us and to wildly out-emit anything the 1st world ever did with this substance, as it already is doing today.
Furthermore, there will be no shortage in the US: R-22 will be available forever under this regime, even after 2020, just like the banned R-12, being that the *manufacture in the US* (not the possession, trading, or stockpiling) is what the G-men with guns will be shooting at, such that the price will skyrocket and bootlegging will be richly profitable.
This is entirely a repeat of R-12 in the early 1990s, which played out exactly this way on a faster phase-out schedule.
Remember, a $50 drum of R-12 bought in 1990 turned into a $1500 gem in a matter of 5 years. You may want to consider an EPA license and a stockpile of R-22 in your investment portfolio.
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Richard J Kinch wrote:

Not to mention the fact that Dow allegedly had their snout in the trough. Their patents had expired on the 'bad' freon. Since the 'good' freon has fresh patents and sells for a lot more than the 'bad' they stand to make a buttload of money off the deal.
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Jim Stewart writes:

Small change compared to what the trade stands to gain. Much higher pressures for the new stuff inevitably makes it less efficient, harder to install, and more frequent to fail, in comparison to what would have been the case with the old stuff. This is thermodynamic certainty. Sure it can work, and tomorrow's models may even work better than today's models, but it just cannot ever work as well as the more ideal R-22 at lower pressures. Everybody in the biz gains, the consumer loses.
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Freon is just a name Dow patent and not whats actually in the jug.
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Freon is like LPG - you get what is handy and useful. Propane in the winter butane in the summer or a mixture all year round or a mix of this and that with enough Propane to give the boost. Once there were Propane dealers - now only LPG.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member http://lufkinced.com /
Danny G. wrote:

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wrote:

Nothing is freon this planet anyway.
--
-john
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On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 15:17:44 -0500, Richard J Kinch

Where? I was paying $70 for 30 lb disposable tanks in 1990, OTC wholesale, in Caalifornia. It was $50 for 30 lb back about 1985-86.
--
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    Hmm ... are there substitutes for R-22 (HCFC-22 in their list)?
    If not -- are there satisfactory refrigerants for the purpose with a change of compressor and A-coil?
    If not -- what will we do with global warming?
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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On 3 Aug 2006 21:42:23 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols) wrote:

http://www.refrigerants.com/MSDS/nri-R290.pdf
--
-john
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Trace the wire from the T2 contactor to the C terminal of the compressor. I just can't believe there is not a overload device sized for the continuous motor current of your AC. If I recall the schematic shows this as a black wire. I see you had a different posting on the same subject where your circuit panel breaker was tripping. I would isolate where the fault to ground is. It may be the compressor, but you can unplug the C-S-R and see if the breaker stops tripping. If so, the compressor either has shorted internally to ground, or the motor winding melted and are shorting out. SteveK Ignoramus1064 wrote:

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They are thermallly protected internally for the most part with this type compressors. If one goes off on the overload its not going to reset until the compressor cools down period.

Sounds like a compressor burn-out.(Dead short) But that would have obvious when checking the compressor terminals (wires removed) resistance.
A compressor locked rotor does not trip circuit breakers right away if at all. Normally the compressor overload trips first. Or fuses at the disconnect. You can find the LRA on the top of the compressor. (3 1/2 ton a/c about 95amps)
GL Dan
Just for reference:
A 15 or 20 amp breaker can usually take being tripped several times
A 30 - 50 amp breaker can not take the heat when it trips repeatedly. Yours should be replaced when the problem is corrected. A weak breaker might not cause problems until hot weather.
A 100 amp circuit breaker would be lucky to trip one time without damage.
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    That -- or the main motor itself.
    Note that any air conditioning compressor *must* be allowed to rest for a certain number of seconds (sometimes low minutes) before power is re-applied. There is normally a timer which prevents re-application of power until this time has elapsed. (The problem being that the compressor cannot start in the face of the pressure differential which existed while it was running.)
    I had one such delay timer fail -- but it failed in the "never try to start" mode, and I was able to swap in a similar unit to put the system back in service myself.
    Some air conditioner systems, at least, have a solenoid valve to speed up the bleed-back and shorten the time before it can be restarted.
    I *suspect* that what has happened is that the nearby lightning strikes zapped the timer module, and re-applied power to the compressor immediately after it stopped -- a condition under which it *can't* re-start.
    I have seen (where I used to work) large industrial air conditioning units without such a delay working blow up and squirt Freon out the door for about thirty seconds. I believe that a connecting rod in the pump failed in that case. I was in my car in the parking lot relaxing during lunch when I saw it happen. Luckily, there were two other units which survived and kept running, so we were not baked out of our labs.
    Anyway -- I suspect physical damage to the compressor, rather than something as simple as a failed capacitor. And from your description, it sounds as though the motor is cap-start/cap-run. The motor *might* have developed a short on the capacitor-fed winding during the attempted too-soon restart.
    I also suspect that both sections of the capacitor are of similar values, so you could try substituting the other section in for a quick test.

    I don't think that they would have anything connected to the can at these voltages, so there should be a common terminal.
    Do you have a capacitance meter to try on the capacitor?

    You have some guesses, at least. I'm afraid that you will need a new compressor unit, and a professional to replace it, unless you have access to the refrigerant as well as having a charging manifold. (Given your questions, I suspect that you don't have the license to purchase the refrigerant. -- Neither do I, which is a real pain given the tight controls on the selling of Freon these days.)
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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