13 SEER Splits not cooling!??!

[Noon-Air]

Condenser fan motor(1/5 - 1/3hp) with single run cap (3 - 10mfd) installed is $275 Dual run cap installed is $80 They are 2 different line items

Thats what I thought too being in a rural farming community in south Mississippi.

I have been in business for 10 years, and barely made expenses with T&M.... it was "HOW MUCH FOR LABOR?????" Consider that some of my customers highest salary was only $5.00/hr. With flat rate, the price is the *INSTALLED* price, and it doesn't matter how long it takes because we don't charge "labor".

I live in one of the poorest areas in the country and my current labor rate in my flat rate book is $100/hr, my current service call fee is $64.95 and I am about to do an across the board increase. I have only gotten 2 complaints about my pricing in the last 2 years. Can you say that?? Like I said....E-mail me privately and I will send you a bunch of stuff that has helped *including* a copy of my current flat rate books...there are 2 of them... one for repairs and the other for change-outs/installs.

Thats what I thought too untill I woke up.

[gofish]

We're not recommending you price yourself out of your market, what we ARE recommending is you charge whatever the heck you want to charge, but do so as FLAT RATE. Have a flat rate fee for diagnostics. You choose how much. Have a flat rate fee for every single repair you or any of your techs do. You choose whatever flat rate price you want Nathan. Flat Rate is consistancy, across the board fairness to all customers.

Take your condenser fan motor scenario. Did that customer have any problem paying the bill? If not, fine. Make that your Flat Rate price to change every similiar hp-voltage cf motor. have another item number for 460v motors or whatever. How about a task that isnt in your flat rate book? Have a line item with a flat rate price for every 15 mins or whatever, just for those situations.

Now print out your Flat Rate book. Every tech has one. Joe Customer can see the price to change out his cf motor. Next to that price will be another price, lets say the Silver Club Membership price. (slightly cheaper) Next to that, another price, the Gold Club Membership price. Even cheaper yet. Joe Customer will ask how he can get the Gold Club Price for his cf motor changout Thats where your tech sells JC your Gold Club maintenance agreement. you DO sell maint agreements dont you? Spiff the tech whenever he sells one. Techs love incentives to make more money.

here's another benefit, your bookkeeper will love, depending on your state tax laws. I buy a cf motor and pay tax on it. Then I sell the motor t&m and collect more tax on it. My bookkeeper has to track the difference between what tax I paid and what i collected, and pay that to the state every quarter. OR

I buy a part, pay tax on it and thats the end of that. The Flat Rate price is inclusive of all taxes labor materials profits etc.

The real problem Nathan? As techs we feel like we can walk on water with our skills. Hell we lead the wagon train west and open up our own businesses. That however in no way qualifies us as a businessman. The two are rarely mutually inclusive.

[aka-SBM]

No it wasnt dumbass, it was name the rest of the rotary compressors, since you want to call things by the name YOu are comfortable with.

[Nathan W. Collier]

is this in addition to other work? if i show up and diagnose a bad capacitor and change it, with nothing else wrong youre looking at:

$60 labor $10 trip charge $25 (roughly) capacitor $15 condensor acid (i typically wash all condensors)

$110 total. not far from what you charge. if youre billing for other work and charging $118 JUST for the capacitor then i dont know how you can charge that much.

[Nathan W. Collier]

in general, yes. i was referencing tech screw-ups/taking to long due to inexperience. that said, i wouldnt hire anything less than a full journeyman anyway. my business carries WAY to much liability (from product loss) to send a newbie.

[Nathan W. Collier]

i typically base my pricing on what my competition is charging. once upon a time i tried to make a name for myself by doing it cheaper than my competition. now i make a name for myself by doing it _better_ than my competition, while charging similar rates.

since dumping residential work i have _never_ gotten a complaint about my billing. what we do in many ways isnt comparable. a supermarket owner with tens of thousands of dollars (and sometimes much more) worth of product in their freezer doesnt care how much it cost to fix the equipment so long as you fix the equipment .

sweet! thanks, email on the way.

[Nathan W. Collier]

even if i disagree with something i always keep an open mind because ive been proven wrong in the past, and most likely will be again in the future. im going to take a look at what noon air sends me with an open mind.

montana (one of the last truly places to live anymore!) has no sales tax.

that is my biggest problem EXACTLY! i dont much care what it is.......if its mechanical and it breaks ill fix it.....even if it requires calling manufacturers tech support, one way or another ill fix it. but im no businessman.

[Nathan W. Collier]

quite honestly i wouldnt know how to answer that with any real accuracy. i tend to look at what i gross that month, and compare it with what i paid out that month.

[Nathan W. Collier]

absolutely not. my rates are in line with my competition.

in the last two years this particular customer (large developer with dozens of commercial properties and over a hundred rental units) has spent over $60,000 on my services, and im not going to jeopardize his account by pushing anything that he doesnt want. he was aware that if we had to go 13 seer that it would require a new coil, but i found 15 units (10 seer 2.5 ton) at my local RSD (no 10 seer coils) which is what he wanted.

i dont think ive ever given a low estimate. i usually quote really high, and then the customer is especially pleased when he gets his bill. in the event that it was going to be more than my original estimate i would discuss it with the customer before i exceeded the amount quoted. regardless, i always make it very clear that its just a rough estimate.

how did you arrive at that?

i currently work out of my garage that we have outgrown. at this point we're considering either leasing or purchasing commercial space.

sorry if i was misleading. they didnt shut their doors, but they lost at least half (im just guessing, based on what ive heard) of their customer base as well as many of their employees.

[Bob Pietrangelo]

Nate until you know that, how can you dare guess how much you should charge? After you figure that out, then you add what you want for a profit margin. Also you have to prepare for growth. If not when you start to do it you will be pulling your hair out. your first instinct is to grow smaller to handle it yourself, because no one can do it as good as yourself.

read two books. The e-myth revisited by Michael Gerber, and Another Contractor by John Hall. If you are truly at two years your are going to hit a brick wall in about another year or so! Then you have to make a choice to implode or design your company properly.

If you are doing better work than everyone else charge what you are worth, and not what everyone else is getting. You will lose customers, but the ones that will stay will be happy to pay nore for your services. Less work more money, more referrals from the people willing to pay more for quality services.

I charge 20-30% more than everyone else. I do not have an ad in the yellow pages, and I get a new custoemr almost everyday.

[Nathan W. Collier]

ive been charging what i feel the market will bare, based on what the competition charges.

heh.....sure seems that way sometimes.

thanks. ill look into them when the heat breaks and things slow down a little.

after dropping residential i have no need for the yellow pages. new customers come from either direct solicitation from me (stop in, shake hands, introduce myself, and tell them why i can do it better), or mainly (anymore, anyway) word of mouth.

[Al Moran]

That's for a full system diagnostic. If I go out there and see the condenser not running, cap swelled up like a frozen soda can, the customer still gets a 17 point inspection after the cap is replaced.

[Al Moran]

The Service Roundtable can help you immensely with that. I've got two more years before I can qualify for a contractors license. I am already working with them on a few things and am looking forward to the day that I can toss the yoke that is my employer! Don't get me wrong, I love the company I work for, but doing it for myself is why I get up everyday and go at it. Again, the company I work for was part of Service Roundtable, I have seen exactly what it can do for an hvac business.

[Bob Pietrangelo]

Our technicians are factory trained and certified to repair everything we service, and due to our low overhead our standard rates are well below industry standard. We don't have incidental charges (such as mileage* or "trip/service" charges) and we don't mark our parts up like other service companies. We also offer many service packages for commercial and residential customers. Call to find out more at 406.252.TECH (8324).

Nate, this is what the industry considers a low ball contracotr, these words are from your website. And, for not doing resi work, your site surely seems to cater toeards it. If you are doing commercial Heat and Cool PM's for a FLAT RATE of $50 you are not going to make it much longer

[Noon-Air]

close....

Do the full diagnostic *first*, then give the customer the laundry list (in writing)of what needs to be done to the system for it to perform as it was new(except the refrigerant, thats the very last thing). They sign off on the recommended repairs, you do the work, then once everything is clean and in good working order, you balance the refrigerant charge, inform the customer if you had to add or recover any refrigerant***, and write the bill.

*** I include the first pound of R-22 for free. If it takes more than 1 pound, then the customer is notified that there is a leak and signs off for an electronic leak search.(I usually start with the evap coil) When the leak(s) are found, the customer is informed, and repairs are scheduled.

At no time do I do any repairs without notifying the customer and they sign off on it, or at least have it noted on the ticket so it doesn't come back that they never approved those repairs and are not gonna pay for them.

[Bob Pietrangelo]

I figured how many billable hours out of 2080 I actually was able to bill for and than divided my overhead expenses for one year by the number of techs I have and the number of available hours I had to sell.

Your big developer that has given you 60K in business over 2 years obviously has faith in you, or is he only using you for how cheap your prices are. IF your work is that good I am sure an additional 10 percent would hurt that relationship. I think that comes to about $250 per month. He is only giving you 2500 per month, not what I would consider a big customer, unless you have about 10 of them. Does that even cover one week of payroll.

[Bob Pietrangelo]

(I meant would not)

hurt that

[Noon-Air]

Is that 2500 GROSS?? or NET??

2500 GROSS is only 2-3 days work for me.

[Bob Pietrangelo]

Steve,

touche'

[Al Moran]

I always have them sign off before I do anything. Sometimes I will do as you suggested, sometimes I will not, the reason being, I prefer do inspect a system that is working if at all possible. This way I can see what all the electrical values are, the charge and sh/sc. Then I make my laundry list and present it.

If I do something like replace a cap first then I tell them: this is what is needed to get the system to run. After I replace this component I am going to do a complete check up on the system. I will be checking for things that can affect its effeincy, longevity or your safety. If I should notice any of these things would you like me to bring them to your attention? Rarely do they say no. This also puts a bug in their mind that more likely than not something else is going to be wrong. Having shown them the level pricing sheet when I first made contact with them, they love it when they have seen the price for a level 5 repair and the repair they actually need is a level one.