13 SEER Splits not cooling!??!

Page 3 of 6  
"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:

Oh My Fucking God.....you're not my kid are you?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

lol.....i suppose its possible (im 37).
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:43:39 -0600, "Nathan W. Collier"

Because a lot of techs do not understand that, before all else, you MUST have correct airflow. I've seen techs where I work with 10 years experience do this. Went on a call yesterday behind one of them. When he went he had no 410a on his truck. Diagnoses the system as low. I go out the next day with instructions to charge the system. Because of some training I recently had, I decided to go through the motions of diagnosing the system myself before I charged it. Turned out tech never went into the attic. System was 3 tons with a 14 inch return. DOH! So now instead of charge and go, homeowners purchased new return, new return grill and filter. After installers install it I am going out again to check the charge.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

i agree with you, and will add to it that i find most are ignorant to how much superheat can tell you.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yup! Check air flow, before anything else!
--
Respectfully, Bob

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:

do you support those immoral restuarant owners who charge a flat rate for each particular entree? nah, lets dont go there.
suppose you had 5 techs running nothing but refrigeration service calls 5 days a week, 8 hours a day. tech 1 has been with you forever and knows everything there is to know about refrigeration and can fix systems faster than any man alive. tech 2 is close on his heels tech 3 signed on 18 mos ago and isnt quite up to speed. he takes 2x times as long as 1 or 2 to find & fix problems. tech 4 signed on a yr ago and is not quite as sharp as 3. tech 5 signed on 6 mos ago. he's your best money maker, as he takes the longest to find and repair the problem. The first two techs spend more time on the road and less time fixing.
So you pad the hours when $10 travel pay doesnt pay the techs hourly pay and vehicle expense? You're telling us you pay your salary, the techs salary, the overhead & taxes, vacation pay, pay all the insurance, fund all the retirements, all for $60 hr? oooooooooook
5 techs, 5 different find & repair times, 5 different hourly charges for the same identical problem. no wonder you're big on stormin moron. he'd be your biggest moneymaker.
I guess its morally ok to screw the customer by sending out the slowest tech, one thats going to take the longest to fix any given problem.

at $90 a motor you're paying almost double wholesale for fractional hp motors

500% markup??

I'd bet your fastest techs find more things wrong than the slowest techs, eh?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

i dont break up pay on driving/working time. hourly rate is hourly rate, both billed and paid.

dont put words in my mouth. you know nothing of my arrangements, as i never said anything about them. but yes, you can indeed. the largest refrigeration company in the country (over 700 employees) recently raised their rates to $65 an hour and they have better benefits than any other company i know of. with T&M you break even on the labor, and make your money on selling parts.

doesnt matter so long as all repair times are reasonable and WHEN THEY ARENT YOU EAT PART OF THE BILL. its the price YOU pay for hiring inexperience, and this is why new techs are $12-$15 an hour employees.

dont be an ass. im not "big" on anybody. im "big" on being helpful, and being a decent person to talk to. ive never said i agreed or disagreed with him or anybody else in here. my only position has been that theres no point in being an asshole needlessly, especially when he admitted his limitations ("im a new tech").

dont impugn my integrity, as i have not impugned yours. i said that i disagreed with flat rate billing on moral grounds. i did not say that you were a crook.

your thinking is messed up. if you have slow techs, you eat much of the bill and hopefully pay them accordingly. that said, i wouldnt hire or keep anyone like this anyway. im a small company with a small and very specific customer base (mainly grocery stores/distribution centers where refrigeration is critical).

how do you figure that? the last 40/5 capacitors i bought were nearly $12 each. i cropped them out of that receipt i posted to make the picture smaller, but if youd like i can upload the bigger picture.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

By "eating" much of the bill, it sounds like you DO adopt a flat-rate policy to me. By what standard do you determine what is "reasonable"?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

"reasonable" would vary with each job. you know that, lets not waste time playing games. eating part of the bill is the price you pay for hiring inexperience. this is why they make about half of what a journeyman could expect.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Actually in the bigger picture, a dual run cap should go for around $80 installed. (I can't help it if you don't charge enough) The increase in business is due in part to direct mail advertising, TV advertising, and a lot of help/advice from a bunch of folks on here and Service Round Table. Since I changed the way I do business, and learned the business of doing business, last year, my year end gross doubled and my net increased by a factor of 10!! After closing out my books in June, I had already surpassed my gross and net from last year. Point of information, and Nate, if you e-mail me privately, I will send you copies of some spreadsheets of before and after.... When I raised my rates and went to flat rate, I got more business than I can handle. I have gone from the brink of bankruptsy to making a decent living. I no longer have to watch every penny, and if I want to buy a new toy... no problem. I am about to do an across the board price increase..... I have not raised my prices since before Katrina, other than specific items where my cost has increased.
You can do what you want.... but when you get tired of working your ass off just "turning" money, there are several here that will help you learn how to "make" money. After all, isn't that why we are in business in the first place???
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

The company I work for used to belong to the Service Round Table group. They saved the companies bacon some years ago, that's for damn sure. We no longer are part of them, but the reason we are not is in no way negative. I would strongly advise anyone that is using time and materials to use either flat rate or level pricing, your profit margin will increase dramatically. Our price for a dual run cap is 118.00 and people have no problem at all paying for it. There are always a few that bitch, but then they buy it because sweating in a 100 degree house is just not fun.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

is this in addition to other work? if i show up and diagnose a bad capacitor and change it, with nothing else wrong youre looking at:
$60 labor $10 trip charge $25 (roughly) capacitor $15 condensor acid (i typically wash all condensors)
$110 total. not far from what you charge. if youre billing for other work and charging $118 JUST for the capacitor then i dont know how you can charge that much.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:45:43 -0600, "Nathan W. Collier"

That's for a full system diagnostic. If I go out there and see the condenser not running, cap swelled up like a frozen soda can, the customer still gets a 17 point inspection after the cap is replaced.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

close....
Do the full diagnostic *first*, then give the customer the laundry list (in writing)of what needs to be done to the system for it to perform as it was new(except the refrigerant, thats the very last thing). They sign off on the recommended repairs, you do the work, then once everything is clean and in good working order, you balance the refrigerant charge, inform the customer if you had to add or recover any refrigerant***, and write the bill.
*** I include the first pound of R-22 for free. If it takes more than 1 pound, then the customer is notified that there is a leak and signs off for an electronic leak search.(I usually start with the evap coil) When the leak(s) are found, the customer is informed, and repairs are scheduled.
At no time do I do any repairs without notifying the customer and they sign off on it, or at least have it noted on the ticket so it doesn't come back that they never approved those repairs and are not gonna pay for them.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I always have them sign off before I do anything. Sometimes I will do as you suggested, sometimes I will not, the reason being, I prefer do inspect a system that is working if at all possible. This way I can see what all the electrical values are, the charge and sh/sc. Then I make my laundry list and present it.
If I do something like replace a cap first then I tell them: this is what is needed to get the system to run. After I replace this component I am going to do a complete check up on the system. I will be checking for things that can affect its effeincy, longevity or your safety. If I should notice any of these things would you like me to bring them to your attention? Rarely do they say no. This also puts a bug in their mind that more likely than not something else is going to be wrong. Having shown them the level pricing sheet when I first made contact with them, they love it when they have seen the price for a level 5 repair and the repair they actually need is a level one.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

ouch. is that in addition to the cost of replacing the fan motor? on the job for the receipt i posted i charged $31.53 for each capacitor, and billed for the labor to put them in.

i charge what the local market will bare.

could this also be due to having been in business longer? i probably wont have a million dollar gross this or next year, but i have shown steady growth since starting on my own over 2 years ago.

i would certainly be interested in looking and i do appreciate some of you taking the time to explain how you do things, but in the end it boils down to what your local market will bare.

thats just it, im making what i consider to be a very good living. if i werent, id do something else.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Condenser fan motor(1/5 - 1/3hp) with single run cap (3 - 10mfd) installed is $275 Dual run cap installed is $80 They are 2 different line items

Thats what I thought too being in a rural farming community in south Mississippi.

I have been in business for 10 years, and barely made expenses with T&M.... it was "HOW MUCH FOR LABOR?????" Consider that some of my customers highest salary was only $5.00/hr. With flat rate, the price is the *INSTALLED* price, and it doesn't matter how long it takes because we don't charge "labor".

I live in one of the poorest areas in the country and my current labor rate in my flat rate book is $100/hr, my current service call fee is $64.95 and I am about to do an across the board increase. I have only gotten 2 complaints about my pricing in the last 2 years. Can you say that?? Like I said....E-mail me privately and I will send you a bunch of stuff that has helped *including* a copy of my current flat rate books...there are 2 of them... one for repairs and the other for change-outs/installs.

Thats what I thought too untill I woke up.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

i typically base my pricing on what my competition is charging. once upon a time i tried to make a name for myself by doing it cheaper than my competition. now i make a name for myself by doing it _better_ than my competition, while charging similar rates.

since dumping residential work i have _never_ gotten a complaint about my billing. what we do in many ways isnt comparable. a supermarket owner with tens of thousands of dollars (and sometimes much more) worth of product in their freezer doesnt care how much it cost to fix the equipment so long as you fix the equipment .

sweet! thanks, email on the way.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

We're not recommending you price yourself out of your market, what we ARE recommending is you charge whatever the heck you want to charge, but do so as FLAT RATE. Have a flat rate fee for diagnostics. You choose how much. Have a flat rate fee for every single repair you or any of your techs do. You choose whatever flat rate price you want Nathan. Flat Rate is consistancy, across the board fairness to all customers.
Take your condenser fan motor scenario. Did that customer have any problem paying the bill? If not, fine. Make that your Flat Rate price to change every similiar hp-voltage cf motor. have another item number for 460v motors or whatever. How about a task that isnt in your flat rate book? Have a line item with a flat rate price for every 15 mins or whatever, just for those situations.
Now print out your Flat Rate book. Every tech has one. Joe Customer can see the price to change out his cf motor. Next to that price will be another price, lets say the Silver Club Membership price. (slightly cheaper) Next to that, another price, the Gold Club Membership price. Even cheaper yet. Joe Customer will ask how he can get the Gold Club Price for his cf motor changout Thats where your tech sells JC your Gold Club maintenance agreement. you DO sell maint agreements dont you? Spiff the tech whenever he sells one. Techs love incentives to make more money.
here's another benefit, your bookkeeper will love, depending on your state tax laws. I buy a cf motor and pay tax on it. Then I sell the motor t&m and collect more tax on it. My bookkeeper has to track the difference between what tax I paid and what i collected, and pay that to the state every quarter. OR
I buy a part, pay tax on it and thats the end of that. The Flat Rate price is inclusive of all taxes labor materials profits etc.

The real problem Nathan? As techs we feel like we can walk on water with our skills. Hell we lead the wagon train west and open up our own businesses. That however in no way qualifies us as a businessman. The two are rarely mutually inclusive.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

even if i disagree with something i always keep an open mind because ive been proven wrong in the past, and most likely will be again in the future. im going to take a look at what noon air sends me with an open mind.

montana (one of the last truly places to live anymore!) has no sales tax.

that is my biggest problem EXACTLY! i dont much care what it is.......if its mechanical and it breaks ill fix it.....even if it requires calling manufacturers tech support, one way or another ill fix it. but im no businessman.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.