Won't Use Soaker Hoses Again This Season

[EVP MAN]

Last year I used soaker hoses for the first time to irrigate my vegetable garden. They worked great and I had a good crop. The problem is that living in town, I'm on city water and sewer with a water meter. Our sewer bill is based on our water usage even though the water used never enters the sewer. My combined bills for water and sewer were super high using the soaker hoses. I realize there are no free rides but this season I will water each plant by hand with a measured two gallon of water per plant each week depending on rainfall. When I was researching the use of soaker hoses, it all sounded good. In my research, soaker hoses were said to conserve your water usage but not so as I have discovered in my case. I was running two 50' soaker hoses for a total of four hours a week. My water and sewer bill more that doubled! I also planted far more crops than my wife and I could use so I ended up giving away at least half of all the vegetables I grew to friends and family. Cost me a lot of money for a few thank you's that I got! This season I'm not going to over plant and only grow what two people can reasonably consume. I may raise a few tomato transplants for my one neighbor. Gave him eight plants last year and he showed his gratitude with a case of beer which I didn't expect but was a very nice gesture on his part indeed :) Gave another neighbor eight plants also and he let them all die because he didn't want to pay to water them at all. Guess this year he will have to buy all his plants at a nursery if he wants any! The funny thing is that after he lost all his plants, he ask me if I wanted to sell him some tomatoes. I just gave him a bunch of them. The more I think about that, I realize how dumb I was! Won't happen this year. After he kills all his plants and wants to buy for (free) some of my tomatoes, I'll say: sure $1.00 each. How many would you like? LOL Live, learn and get a bit wiser each year :)

Rich

[Dan L]

I have five rain barrels that gets me through between rains. Preserve those tomatoes and will never have extra tomatoes again. Extra tomatoes also help make great compost. Get a couple of hens and feed them your garden scraps and get fresh eggs every morning.

[John McGaw]

Now that you've learned that soaker hoses are wasteful, move on and try proper drip irrigation which gives you drop-by-drop control over how much each plant receives. AFAIK it is the most efficient method of irrigation available. Add on an automatic controller which monitors soil moisture and you will have the ultimate.

[EVP MAN]

I don't think I'll have the funds for a drip irrigation system so I'll no doubt use a gallon milk jug to water each plant. I've read a few articles on the net where you can bury half a soda bottle near the base of each plant and use them as a drip irrigation system. Perhaps I may experiment with that method also. You sure hit the nail right on the head when you called soaker hoses wasteful. Soaker hoses may be ok for square foot gardening but with two - three feet between plants, there is just way too much water being placed where it isn't needed. Hopefully we will get more rain this season. Last year sure was dry in my area. I hope each season my soil structure improves also. I have heavy clay and this will be my third season working to improve it. I've been adding cow manure, compost, grass clippings, dried leaves in the fall and most any other kind of organic matter. I know it will take time but I'm getting nice crops and it should improve with each passing year :)

Rich from PA Zone 5-6

[Brooklyn1]

You don't say where you live (climate wise) so it's difficult to offer explicit advice. But in any event soaker hoses are probably the best of any watering alternatives. You'll use less water if you bury the soaker hoses with a heavy application of mulch, you'll use less water because you'll lose less. Also the better your soil is amended with organic material the more water it will hold and hold it longer. There really is no simple/inexpensive work around with how your water/sewer company bills but I know that many small town municipalities bill exactly the same way (it's very common), they charge for town sewer by how much water you use with no regard for how you use that water, if I lived in town I'd have the same. The only alternative I know of is to drill your own well (if permitted), but if you're heavily into gardening you'd do much better to move to a rural location. Not growing so much is an excellent idea regardless where you live, who needs all that extra labor just for the luxury of being able to show off all your give-away crops. It's best to grow only what you can use. Contrary to what so many think the home vegetable garden over time offers no savings, it's a big expense, it's strictly a hobby... even farming professionally is a huge gamble. With a home vegetable garden over time you will have a few good crops but they need to be weighed against the years when crops fail, and usually there will be more bad years than good. In a way you are fortunate that you need to do a lot of irrigating, what do you think happens to crops when it rains nearly every day.

[Notat Home]

You might approach your municipal authorities and point out that they are charging you for a service you are not using. In our town, they responded by reducing the sewage charge during the irrigation system by a percentage designed to match your sewage charge to what water you use during the non-irrigating system. Seems fair to me.

I agree that drip irrigation systems are more efficient than the indiscriminate soaker hoses, although they take a bit more work to install. You can use different sizes of nozzles depending on the watering need of each plant, and I use extra long feeder lines, in case I decide to move a plant (or one dies and I want to put the replacement in a different spot. I think either will work well with rain barrels, although I have read that some states do not allow rain barrels, arguing that they keep the water from going into the aquifier (I have no idea where they think the water goes after you take it out of the rain barrel and put in on your garden or lawn).

[cshenk]

"Notat Home" wrote

Here, the objection to rain barrels is mosquitos. Although you can prevent them with a thin layer of oil, that too requires some level of tending that many do not do. Hehe I have a friend who uses them and he puts in a few goldfish (feeding them yes). The fish poop doesnt harm the plants any.

[John McGaw]

If you are considering using collected water from rain barrels or ponds or whatever to feed a drip system be sure that you have a _good_ inline filter in the water feed. It takes almost nothing to clog the drip emitters and once they are plugged up they are a lost cause.

If I were younger and building or remodeling a house it would be great to install an underground cistern for rain collection. In some rather dry climates it is possible to collect enough free water for a large garden from the roof of the house. Of course the huge underground storage tank is far from free but over the span of a couple of decades it will surely pay for itself several times over.

[cshenk]

"Brooklyn1" wrote

I need to get mine checked out. I think the well is fine but the pump needs servicing I bet.

Meantime, we haven't used it in the past 3 years.

Actually, it depends on how you go about it and it can be cheap indeed to do for a few small things for a family of 3 with a few gifted items when there is a surplus.

My findings are that once you are past the initial outlay for containers and soil to fill them (if you need to purchase) then there are certain things you can crop quite efficiently and cheaply even in an apartment porch.

Here's my list in order of 'easy' (containers 4ft x 12 inch by 8 deep mostly but some taller or longer):

-Lettuce, especially baby or butter but any loose leaf type like romaine works. 'Iceberg' not easy. Seed used, have 2 containers and multi-crop by planting seed (can mix types in same container) every 6-7 weeks while rotating containers. Works from April to November here.

- Green onions and chives, you can get the bulbs just off grocery store plants you get in spring and plant the bottoms with a little of the top sticking up. They will proliferate over time so you can use the bulbs too. It's an invest once, crop for YEARS item. 1 container planted 2007 still going strong.

- Parsley and many other herbs, seed planted. Most have to be reseeded each year. a 2 ft section of container gets whatever herb I want more of that year. Dehydrator used to preserve a years worth of our use.

- Cucumbers, if you don't mind them sprawling out of the container on the ground. 1 end of a container gets these. 3 plants in a 2ft section fits us but then, we aren't trying to make a bunch for pickling. 89cents for 3 plants (about the cost of a cucumber here is same as a plant seedling)

- Green Bell Peppers, we often go a whole container here with 6 plant seedlings. Again, about 89cents a seedling and more than that for store bought bells. I go heirloom here for the better more intense flavor. A few stakes needed but easy to do.

- Tomatoes, types vary. I list these later only because you have to replace the soil if you don't have the organic mulch to get a good crop year after year. You also have to 'tree' them a bit more than peppers and that's not as easy in a container. First year crop will be great then degrade until you replace the soil (which can be rotated nicely to the lettuce containers and onion set).

- Straight neck summer yellow squash, 1 plant can be pretty prolific and crop up 1 8 inch squash every week for 2 months or more. These work better in a deeper container. A left over kitty litter plastic container is a good option is you have them collecting. Make a hole in the bottom-side about 2 inches up so it can drain.

There are others easy that I don't commonly do such as spinach (fits with lettuce in ease) and eggplant (needs a deeper container) and carrots (again, deeper container). Potatoes can be dead easy if you have a deep container but i've not tried them as it sounds more work than I'd get back in produce.

Watering is done with a combination of hose or a gallon jar and in some climates, I've used a drip system from a milk jug with fishtank air tubing. If you line the pots correctly, there is little water loss on watering.

Total expense this year, about 15$. Water use, nominal, maybe 2$? Total return as opposed to buying at the grocery, only 40$ profit but that's because this year the bunnies from hell got my garden before all of it cropped up fully. Most years, I do far better.

[Brooklyn1]

Break even over a couple of decades, that's twenty years, that indicates a lotta bucks invested... not to mention unanticipated costs like pump, wiring, electric, and plumbing, and what happens when it doesn't rain... it would be far less costly to simply buy your produce from the stupidmarket/farmstand. In dry climates water from a cistern would get sucked up into the hot bone dry ground in no time, far faster than you can collect it, a total waste. Unless you have a natural body of water to pump from or your own well then what makes the most sense is to keep your hobby farm small and use tap water. My garden is located right along side a natural spring fed stream, even during the dry spells it can keep the ground fairly damp for like 2-3 weeks. I have my own well too, but were I to use it constantly it would cost a lot to repair it when it broke down. I learned to keep my vegetable garden small, a few years back I gave up more than 1/3 to blueberry bushes... a 50' X 50' plot can produce enough veggies for six families, I got tired of giving them away. Knowing then what I know now I would have built my garden 1/4 its size.

[Dan L]

It is not all about cost. I prefer not to consume genetically engineered, roundup filled soil and pesticide on my produce. If one purchases organic produce, those cost factors may change dramatically. I can have varieties that are not found at your local market. Also for me it is about being independent, which also beyond a cost factor.

[David Hare-Scott]

It depends on the situation. For small scale conservative targeted watering what he doing now (hand watering) is likely best. For a larger scale where carrying water is too tiresome drippers are very good, although they can be expensive. It depends on how you rate the cost of water, your time and capital costs.

You'll use less water if you bury the

There

This is a strange billing system. I suppose it is some kind of attempt to bill sewerage as "user pays" instead of at a flat rate. But it sure bites the home gardener using town water. It is not used in these parts.

The only alternative I know of is to

Tanks or ponds to collect your own roof or surface water are other possibilities, Gov regulations and cost permitting. There is no one size fits all solution.

Not

I can see that it could be like that if you buy all your inputs or cost your time and don't have much to show for it. I buy very few inputs and don't cost my time so I am way in front year after year. For some there is real joy in giving or spreading their bread upon the waters so a neighbourhood dividend is not a luxury.

And for you the glass isn't half full, it isn't even half empty, your glass is near empty all the time. Don't assume that everything is as bad as you see it, other people live different lives in different circumstances and they are not all as grim as yours seems to be.

In a way you are fortunate that you need to

Some of my best crops were when I lived in a dry inland climate (no fungus and few bugs) and had access to plenty of water at no direct cost.

David

[FarmI]

And for us, we get a real joy out of eating really fresh food and where we know the inputs.

And I also find that things tend to even out over time. If I have a good year with one veg and a not so good year with another, it doesn't really matter. If I'd decided to plant only a few of any one vegetable or even only one or two varieties of vegetables, I would have missed out because the conditions for whatever didn't do well coul dhave had an impact on my only a few veg/varieties.

Yup. I prefer inland growing - less humidity and good strong ehat when it des event ually arrive. At the rate this summer if goign though I wont' have tomatoes for at least another month and probably more like 2 months. This is not going to be a tomato glut season.

[Brooklyn1]

So essentially you are concurring, home vegetable gardening is a hobby, you're mostly in it for the personal enjoyment of growing stuff, and you get to eat some too. Sure home grown tomatoes taste better than the typical store bought but mostly they all come in at once within a relatively short period as do all crops, one can eat only so much. Unless one goes into crops on a large enough scale to supply several families there is no way that supermarket prices can be beat... and even with a little truck farm crops can fail and often do and for a number of reasons outside ones control, and then there's the cost of supplies, tools, and powered equipment and those get used up and fail too. Who do you think supports the plant nurseries and gardening product aisles at the big box stores, home gardeners is who. Believe it or not folks tend to home veggie gardens for exactly the same reason folks tend to lawns, personal satisfaction is all... even though one can't eat that grass neither holds sway over the other, both are hobbies. No hobby is profitable monetarilly, as soon as it is it's called a business. I do gardening too, I'm motivated by enjoyment, not saving money... no way can one save money from any kind of home gardening.

[EVP MAN]

I tend to agree that you don't save money by home gardening especially the first year which is quite a large expense until you get things you will need. YEP, it's a hobby which does cost money! But then again all hobbies cost money. And I learned the hard way that small is better. Last year I had 28 tomato plants and yes they all ripen about the same time. That gave me four to six weeks for the wife and I to use hundreds of tomatoes. We don't can or make sauce so it was impossible to use all them tomatoes. I ended up giving more away than what we used. And now that I think about it, that was kind of dumb. What I was doing was giving away a lot of my time and money! This year them 28 tomato plants will be cut back to 8 or 10 instead. I already warned my wife NOT to be telling a bunch of people that we would see to it that they get tomatoes this year. This season I'm looking out for my own best interests. If friends and neighbors want fresh vegetables, they will need to put a garden in and grow it the same as I do!

Rich

[Dan L]

The term "Hobby" could be used for some. Is doing laundry a hobby also by your definition? After all why buy a washing machine and dryer when I can take my dirty clothes to the cleaners. How about one of your other favorite subjects "Cooking" is that a hobby when one can go the restaurants three times a week? I am sure there are cost advantages of eating out all the time.

I often think of a hobby that only provides a pleasure incentive. Gardening does pay ones self with goods that helps one survive physically. Bird watching, Amateur Radio and Chess provides pleasure only. like Chess and Gardening i Win and Lose at times. Does working for yourself just a hobby. I built my own home, Me and two nephews did everything except the concrete work and drywall. Is building your own home a hobby? I am not being paid by anyone. So by your definition of Hobby, does working for yourself count? Gardening and food preservation in my book is being self reliant, not a hobby.

[Dan L]

I want my tomatoes to come in at the same time. I do preserve my own foods. Most canning equipment is a one time purchase, except for the lids which are cheap.

[EVP MAN]

Some people may look at home gardening as a hobby while others may look at it as being self reliant but the main thing is the cost factor. Is it cheaper to grow it or buy it at market? Here again that would depend on all factors involved. First we need seed or transplants, we need to cultivate, fertilize, water and finally harvest then use, process and preserve or market our crop. Each phase has a cost involved unless we can find a way to get it for free or reduce the cost. If we have to pay for all of the above then I think it's far cheaper to buy produce than to grow it. Now this isn't counting our labor which if considered a hobby is a labor of love in which we get enjoyment. Last season I would of had to sell my tomatoes for at least $1 each just to break even or perhaps $2 each! Yes I had a good crop but the Mantis tiller alone was $375 plus gas and oil to run it. Steel support stakes at $3.50 each, cow manure at $4 a bag x six bags, roll of garden fencing $50, slow release fertilizer $20 and city water at $40 a month x 3 months. That's on top of the price of seeds, peat pellets, potting soil, grow lights and the electricity to fun them for eight weeks at 16 hours a day to raise transplants. Now mind you, I'm not complaining simply because I myself look at this as my hobby and I know in advance that all hobbies can get rather expensive. Thank God I don't play golf :)

Rich

[Billy]

You do realize, don't you, Dan, that everybody else in the world knows this. Getting there IS the trip, not being there.

[Brooklyn1]

You don't make any sense, you are simply attempting to defend the indefensible... home veggie gardening is a hobby like all others, primarilly gives pleasure but saves not a mot on ones grocery bill. I've had a veggie garden every year for more than 60 years and never saved a penny on food... canning and freezing costs more than buying at the stupidmarket. NO hobby saves money and a home veggie garden is definitely a hobby, one of the more costly hobbies when time, effort, and losses to nature are factored in. I've been involved in several hobbies, I've raised tropical fish for many years, collected stamps, and coins and I've collected fountain pens most of my life and still, at least I can occasionally sell fountain pens at a profit, I've never sold a tomato at a profit. I garden strictly for enjoyment... no one saves money with home vegetable gardening, it's 100% an expense... actually more than 100%, a lot more... anyone who believes they are saving money is fantacising. I recently spent over $300 on mole/vole protection products, I'd have to sell a ton of tomatoes to maybe break even. Just from reading here of people bitching about their watering bills alone proves that gardening is not monetarilly profitable, never mind all the other myriad cost aspects folks here constantly whine about paying for.