when is corn ready in zone 5- Wisconsin?

[JoeSpareBedroom]

It's already here in upstate NY, same zone (along Lake Ontario). Go now. It would be surprising to find that your farmers aren't planting some of the same early varieties we have here.

[dr-solo]

When should I begin haunting the Farmer's market for fabulous locally grown sweet corn? INgrid ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Somewhere between zone 5 and 6 tucked along the shore of Lake Michigan on the council grounds of the Fox, Mascouten, Potawatomi, and Winnebago

[Una]

Call the market manager to ask this question. Whetting your appetite with good information about when crops will come in is part of the manager's job.

Una

[Nelly]

Most of the sites just generally say "August". This might get you in contact with a local with hopefully less vague info:

to stire up the thread-drift police, but has anyone ever seen the ancestral plant corn came from? Genetic engineering over the millenia sometimes amazes me.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Thread drift: The usenet version of a normal conversation with an interesting person.

[Nelly]

Usenet is a good way to discuss topics. Here, the topic is "corn." I've always found that if neither the topic nor any of its contributors compels a person to add anything remotely useful, then that person should shut the hell up.

[David Hare-Scott]

Are mutation and human selection genetic engineering?

Many of our food plants (and animals) have been through such extreme change due to such processes since mankind started agriculture - some say back into our hunter-gatherer days. The ancestors of many plants had much smaller edible parts, were less tasty (in some cases they were poisonous) and did not grow so much in ways that suit cultivation.

David

[Nelly]

Genetic engineering is what they called it on NatGeo. A man held up this alleged ancestor that was like the scrawniest, puniest stalk of lawn grass with only 3 thin leaf blades on it. With most ancestral plants I can usually see some possible interest in it, or I can at least make out some similarities but I wondered what amazing mutation happened that could get a human remotely interested in such a pitiful-looking thing.

Neither here nor there; I do a lot of "typing out loud" that usually gets edited out before hitting 'send', so thank you for not being rude about it.

[Billy]

My understanding is that the desired insertion genes have an enabler attached to them (usuallyCauliflower mosaic virus [CaMV] which ensures that the gene activates) and an antibiotic marker which allows confirmation of insertion. The genes to be inserted are then physically slammed into the host cell. Some genes are incorporated and some aren't. If the cells express antibiotic ability of the type which reflect the "marker", then the DNA has been hybridized.

So, first off, an antibiotic is ubiquitously used, and it is expected that bacteria will quickly develop a resistance to it. This, you wouldn't find in Mendelian plant breeding.

Secondly, the transcription of the DNA gene into m-RNA and then into a new protein can go awry as the machinery (spliceosomes!) find m-RNA that they've never seen before, and produce new proteins which may be allergens. The allergens, if they illicit a drop dead response, may be noticed, otherwise they become a source of chronic exposure (see StarLink corn, and ). There are no long term feeding requirements for GMO foods. We are the guinea pigs.

Thirdly, we only use about 2% of our DNA, the rest of it may be luggage from evolution (Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny, and all that), dormant viruses or god knows what. Cauliflower mosaic virus (CaMV) is an "On Switch", and doesn't necessarily stay with the inserted genes. It is possible, that it could "turn on" some of our archaic DNA.

True, x-rays have been used to create mutations, and chemicals such as colchicine, and auxins have been used to create new plants, but their use doesn't seem, to me, to be as radical as genetic engineering.

Two books that I would recommend on the subject are:

Seeds of Deception: Exposing Industry and Government Lies About the Safety of the Genetically Engineered Foods You're Eating [Paperback] by Jeffrey M. Smith

Mendel in the Kitchen: A Scientist's View of Genetically Modified Food [Paperback] by Nina V. Fedoroff (Author), Nancy Marie Brown (Author)

Seeds of Deception makes the case against GMOs, and Mendel in the Kitchen makes a case for them.

And of course, both books can be found at a library near you.

[dr-solo]

you simply MUST watch "Botany of Desire". It shows the ancestors of 4 species where humans have had a hand in extensive selection pressure. I use this movie in my class. Featured plants: Apples Tulips Potatoes Marijuana

Scroll to the bottom of my site here

just love how Brassica oleracea has undergone selection!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Somewhere between zone 5 and 6 tucked along the shore of Lake Michigan on the council grounds of the Fox, Mascouten, Potawatomi, and Winnebago

[dr-solo]

I am the OP and am delighted with the drift!!! picking a .edu or .gov site.

"May 27, 2005

Researchers have identified corn genes that were preferentially selected by Native Americans during the course of the plant's domestication from its grassy relative, teosinte, (pronounced "tA-O-'sin-tE") to the single-stalked, large-eared plant we know today. The study revealed that of the 59,000 total genes in the corn genome, approximately 1,200 were preferentially targeted for selection during its domestication.

The study, by University of California, Irvine's Brandon Gaut and his colleagues, appears in the May 27 issue of the journal, Science."

for more go read the orig>Genetic engineering is what they called it on NatGeo. A man held up this

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Somewhere between zone 5 and 6 tucked along the shore of Lake Michigan on the council grounds of the Fox, Mascouten, Potawatomi, and Winnebago

[David Hare-Scott]

Good stuff. Even if you don't into the details of what they are I think it would be good to mention that Mendelian genetics is only part of the story and there are many additional processes that interfere with strict Mendelian outcomes.

Secondly the breeding of domesticated species was mainly conducted before Mendel (or Darwin who didn't know about Mendel either) so it was a matter of selection of desired traits and hoping for the best rather than understanding how it worked. Even today some domestic breeding does rely on understanding the genetics (eg colour-pointed cats) but much does not (eg cattlemen pick "good" bulls on phenotype and ancestry knowing little or nothing about their actual genotype).

David

[Billy]

In article , "David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Wheat genetics is more complicated than that of most other domesticated species. Some wheat species are diploid, with two sets of chromosomes, but many are stable polyploids, with four sets of chromosomes (tetraploid) or six (hexaploid).[18] ? Einkorn wheat (T. monococcum) is diploid (AA, two complements of seven chromosomes, 2n=14).[1] ? Most tetraploid wheats (e.g. emmer and durum wheat) are derived from wild emmer, T. dicoccoides. Wild emmer is itself the result of a hybridization between two diploid wild grasses, T. urartu and a wild goatgrass such as Aegilops searsii or Ae. speltoides. The unknown grass has never been identified among now surviving wild grasses, but the closest living relative is Aegilops speltoides.[citation needed] The hybridization that formed wild emmer occurred in the wild, long before domestication.[18]The hybridization that formed wild emmer (AABB) happened long before domestication, and was driven by natural selection. ? Hexaploid wheats evolved in farmers' fields. Either domesticated emmer or durum wheat hybridized with yet another wild diploid grass (Aegilops cylindrica) to make the hexaploid wheats, spelt wheat and bread wheat.[18] These have three sets of paired chromosomes, three times as many as in diploid wheat. The presence of certain versions of wheat genes has been important for crop yields. Apart from mutant versions of genes selected in antiquity during domestication, there has been more recent deliberate selection of alleles that affect growth characteristics. Genes for the 'dwarfing' trait, first used by Japanese wheat breeders to produce short-stalked wheat, have had a huge effect on wheat yields world-wide, and were major factors in the success of the Green revolution in Mexico and Asia. Dwarfing genes enable the carbon that is fixed in the plant during photosynthesis to be diverted towards seed production, and they also help prevent the problem of lodging. 'Lodging' occurs when a ear stalk falls over in the wind and rots on the ground, and heavy nitrogenous fertilization of wheat makes the grass grow taller and become more susceptible to this problem. By 1997, 81% of the developing world's wheat acreage was planted to semi-dwarf wheats, giving both increased yields and better response to nitrogenous fertilizer. Wild grasses in the genus Triticum and related genera, and grasses such as rye have been a source of many disease-resistance traits for cultivated wheat breeding since the 1930s.

It got complicated before Mendel.

Dance ;O)

[dr-solo]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Somewhere between zone 5 and 6 tucked along the shore of Lake Michigan on the council grounds of the Fox, Mascouten, Potawatomi, and Winnebago